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Real Flight 9.5 Installation Trojans/virus problems


Geoff S
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Having read all the reviews, seen the adverts (eg the back page of the latest BMFA News) I decided to buy the s/w only version and the wireless dongle.

I got the s/w (2x cd roms) last week and attempted the installation. I have McAfee AV as part of my BT ISP package and it reported a trojan.   I didn't associate it with RF and spent some hurs trying to 'clean' my desktop PC - including reinstalling Windows 10 via a fairly recent System Image back-up.  This took some time.  It then dawned on me that there was a correlation between the RF install and my problems, so I disbaled the AV s/w (after disconnecting from the web by switching off my router) and the install went OK.  I was also able to bind my Horus to the wireless Spektrun dongle via the multiprotocol module I had plugged in.  All appeared well but ...

When I tried to start RF after reinstating the AV s/w,  the shortcut wouldn't link because it said the target had been removed.  I altered the target to the s/w directly and it all worked.  However, because the launcher wasn't there I was unable to up date the s/w.  The only way I could do that was to partly disable the AV s/w by telling it not to check virus and then choosing to place all the Real Flight .exe files in an exceptions folder.  After reinstalling (yet again) Real Flight it all worked.  If anyone wants more detail on how I achieved this go to the fprums at Knife Edge who wrote the software. On the Real Flight 9 forum I started a thread about my difficulties.

I was (and am) very annoyed about all this because it is a known problem but its never mentioned on any of the YouTube reviews.  Only prospective buyers who visit the Knife Edge forum first would find out that installation is such a problem.  Personally, I think the s//w should be withdrawn until the installation issues are solved by KNife EDge or Horizon Hobbies.  Fortunately, although I'm very out of touch (retired for 25 years) I'm not a total IT novice but anyone who's inexperienced would find great difficulty in getting RF to run.

Now I've got it working, the actual simulator is excellent, so it's pity they've fallen down on the installation problems. 

Geoff

 

 

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I had this problem too, Geoff.  You might find that after any software update, McAffee will quarantine your launcher and exe files again.  I got over it by temporarily disabling real time scanning in McAffee before launching Real Flight.  The real time scan is only disabled for a few mins then it kicks in again.  All the other virus protection remains in place so it's pretty low risk as far as I can tell.

I no longer use McAffee since I moved to Virgin broadband and everything works OK without any jiggery pokery.

Mike 

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It is rather annoying that a piece of software I paid £100 for won't load (or even run) reliably.   Moreover, unless you really search for it, it's all very hush hush.  Realflight continue advertsining and selling a faulty product and balming either Microsoft or whatever AV s/w you're running.  I have no problem running any other programs.  It's just very poor programming by RF (or Knife Edge who I think actually wrote the simulator).

I'm trying to download the latest update but I've forgotten my password and I've contacted RF. Assuming I manage to get it, we'll see if things work OK.

Once it's running the actual simulator is great. My main gripe is the number of EFlite artf foamies in the list of models and the fact that the model selections aren't categorised into types eg Helicopter; quad; scale; trainer etc.

It's the last thing I buy from Horizon Hobby that's for sure.

Geoff

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So if a 'real' virus occurs of the type McAfee detects in Realflight's dodgy s/w and another AV doesn't. what then?  McAfee doesn't cause a problem anywhere else.  Are you saying they're all out of step except Realflight?

My machine works perfectly with McAfee disabled ... but for how long?  In any case it's not only McAfee that causes problems other AV s/w does too.

The Realflight programmers are obviouslly using dubious methods to protect their copyright. I can understand that without accepting it as a legitimate ploy.  When I first started writing s/w we used to use all sorts of weird techniques to save a few bytes of memory (it was assembler or machine code) because the ROMs we used to run the code were only 2kb but it was years before IBM PCs and even longer before the internet.

Geoff

Edited by Geoff S
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Well, I've succeeded in installing RealFlight9.5 ver 9.50.031 which seems to have properly validated potential trojan/virus to the satisfaction of McAfee!

One of my problems was that I'd neglected to keep a proper record of my password which barred me from accessing the latest update. So I contacted Horizon Hobbies help and eventually got a reply instructing me to remove RF completely and delete any quarantined files etc and do a full install.  I first closed the AV Firewall and disabled some of the real time scanning and then did the full installation.  

Unlike the first time, the 'activate code' and the s/w serial number had to sent to HH via the Technical Support tab.  Eventually I got another email from HH with an activate code which then allowed me to download and install the latest version of the s/w which appears to be immune to McAfee's virus scans ... so far.  I was also able to create another password which I've diligently recorded.

So if anyone chooses to buy RealFlight I offer this advice.  Turn off anti-virus s/w (you can disconnect from the 'net if you feel concerned) before the installation.  Then, before running it properly select the option to update (and record your password because you will need it to access ver.031).  You will then need to open your firewall for the download.  Once ver .031 is installed you can reset both the firewall and the AV s/w.  Out of precaution, I did a short virus scan.

Once  you get into the actual simulator it works really well.  There's a lot to learn.  I'm not very happy about the installation problems but I'm quite impressed with the 'flying'.

Geoff

 

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  • 1 year later...

My old gaming laptop running windows10 ran RF9.5 with no problems.

invested in a new gaming laptop running windows11, now RF will not load, frozen screen with sound still working in background???

I have tried updates and suggested fixes, even transferring to steam no joy.

I would expect RF 9.5 to run on a new laptop or a fix/patch to be available.

Many folks have the same issues????

anybody had the same problem and found a fix ???

 

Cheers🙂 

 

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McAfee is rubbish, throws up false positives, hogs resources and slows your PC down. I used to use it but the latest versions of Windows Defender seem to work fine, otherwise I use AVG which also works well and is free. McAfee can be a pain to get rid of too, I think there's a McAfee removal tool which will clean all of the program components out of the system.

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I've abandoned McAfee and use the Windows Defender, too.   I re-installed RF9.5 from the DVDs a few weeks ago with no problems or loss of the extra aircraft I'd downloaded.  I then had one of Microsoft's compulsory updates and now the RF Launcher doesn't work (which was the reason I'd re-installed it in the first place).  RF itself works OK but updates only work through the Launcher.  It's not a serious problem but a bit annoying. 

 

Try going to the RF web page forums and see if anyone else uses W11.

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btw I use a Spektrum (DMX, I think) receiver dongle plugged into a USB port on my desk top PC and a multi-protocol module plugged into the back of my Frsky Horus.  It works OK but would be better if I set up each aircraft properly in the transmitter - I just use 4 channel without even dual rates 🙂

Edited by Geoff S
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  • 1 year later...

Listen I will chime in here as an IT professional. It is McAfee! You guys have a incorrect view of how AVs work. AVs keep a database of known infections and known published files. If your AV sees a file that is has in it's DB but their DB is not up to date with the latest version is will mark it as a Trojan. You will notice that every reported AV issues with known software reports it as a Trojan. That is because a Trojan is exactly like it sounds, a known piece software that has been modified, modified in what way, the AV has no idea, is all it knows is it does not match the same file it has in it's database. Therefor, it is a known file with unknown code in it, i.e. a Trojan. However, in truth that "unknown code" is just the latest from the manufacture. This is also why every piece of hacked software that works great and has no infections are marked as Torjans, more known files with unknown changes to them. People take Trojan warnings way to serious and you will notice they also tend to show up with smaller less known software, really the AV companies don't keep up to date with the smaller manufactures, what a surprise.

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To make sure we don't go off on a tangent, I'm only talking about AVs and how they detect Torjan viruses. AVs can be very complicated in how they gather data and how often that data is updated. For the guy that was confused (PDB), is all you need to know is, when an AV marks a file as a Torjan it is not identifying any specific threat, it is simply seeing a version of software files it does not recognize and therefore marks it as a possible Trojan. This is not at all the same as when a AV matches a specific threat signature that has been generated for a known piece of malware. This is why I'm only speaking to the relevant Trojan part of this. Diving deep into modern AVs is not relevant to this topic and will just cause confusion. 

 

GrumpyGnome,

Your comment is ideal but not very realistic anymore, threats evolve way too fast these days and most of the companies are more concerned with the defined threats that have signatures created for them than generic Trojan warnings. This is exactly why most software companies tell you to turn off AVs when installing software. For software manufactures the solution they can control is to tell you to tun off AVs when you install software and the exclude certain files etc... They are not going to try and spin their wheels getting every AV company to update their files. Companies try to provide AV companies with this info, but many don't keep it up to date and many want money or other incentives to keep your software up to date in their database.

 

Most users of computers just do to whatever the OS tells them to do. Even years ago, a company had to pay for all testing and then pay an operating system provider around 1 million dollars to get their software whitelisted. I know the cost has only gone up. Most companies say screw that, if you want to use our software you can just bypass the warning. Software is big money and these issues more often than not are determined by money, not whether people are willing to collaborate or not.

Edited by Martin Harris - Moderator
Removed unacceptable language and potentially libellous comment
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 21/11/2023 at 21:16, Alpha said:

Listen I will chime in here as an IT professional. It is McAfee! You guys have a incorrect view of how AVs work. AVs keep a database of known infections and known published files. If your AV sees a file that is has in it's DB but their DB is not up to date with the latest version is will mark it as a Trojan. You will notice that every reported AV issues with known software reports it as a Trojan. That is because a Trojan is exactly like it sounds, a known piece software that has been modified, modified in what way, the AV has no idea, is all it knows is it does not match the same file it has in it's database. Therefor, it is a known file with unknown code in it, i.e. a Trojan. However, in truth that "unknown code" is just the latest from the manufacture. This is also why every piece of hacked software that works great and has no infections are marked as Torjans, more known files with unknown changes to them. People take Trojan warnings way to serious and you will notice they also tend to show up with smaller less known software, really the AV companies don't keep up to date with the smaller manufactures, what a surprise.

Sorry, but there is no way that AV databases hold copies of every software file (or even a tiny fraction of them) to be used for comparison.

 

They use algorithms and design patterns to look for suspected trojans.

 

And those algorithms sometime result in false-positives.  For example, if a piece of legitimate code has been written in an irregular way it might get marked as a trojan.

 

They may of course hold more details for known trojans and viruses which it does search for.

 

But there is no way that it hold copies of every software file so that it can compare with what is actually stored.  Licence and IP issues aside, just thin how large that database would have to be.

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