john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Ooops trouble at t'mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: That makes no sense at all! If not compliant and they were aware, why change them in the first place? I thought I understood that although we're not "in" EASA we were to operate under their "umbrella" which meant following all their rules and procedures. Indeed, it does not make sense at all, lord knows who made that decision. The position re: EASA does seem to be very muddy at present, though according to EASA it sounds like very little in our trade agreement covers aviation... "On January 1, 2021 EU aviation safety legislation, including Regulation (EU) 2018/1139 establishing EASA, no longer applies to the UK. As of that date, the UK is considered as a third country and no longer has the status of an ‘EASA Member State’. Only two aspects of aviation safety cooperation are addressed in the future framework on trade and cooperation, namely certain simplifications on the approvals covering design and manufacture of aeronautical products. The EU aviation safety system is based on the sharing of roles and responsibilities between the EU Member States and EASA, whereby EASA is responsible for approval of organisations located in third countries – including the UK – that wish to provide goods and services to the EU, and the Member States are responsible for approval of organisations located in the EU and the licensing of aircrew and other aeronautical personnel. It is also the Member States (and not EASA) who are responsible for implementation and oversight of aspects such as passenger rights, economic licensing of airlines and screening of passengers at EU airports. With respect to the responsibilities of EASA the above means the following: As regards organisations located in the UK, except for design and production organisations: those organisations which applied for EASA certificates under the ‘early applications’ process, are issued with those certificates by EASA on December 31, 2020, effective from January 1, 2021; As regards design and production organisations located in the UK they are governed by the trade and cooperation Agreement between the EU and the UK. For production, the agreement provides for mutual recognition of the production certifications and production oversight systems. For Design, whilst the agreement does not provide for mutual recognition of any certificates, it does allow for certain amount of simplification in the acceptance or validation of such certificates. The detailed technical implementing procedures implementation of the aviation safety part of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement are currently under preparation and will be provided soon. The Agency has provided answers to the more frequently asked questions (FAQs) concerning the consequences of the withdrawal of the UK from the EASA system. More information on FAQs can be found on our dedicated webpage: Brexit FAQs" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) ...and then there is this somewhat contradictory page on the CAA microsite (which ain't that micro!) for Brexit - make of it what you will, it's as clear as mud to me...! "Will the UK be adopting the EU-UAS implementing rule being developed by EASA? The UK has been directly involved in assisting EASA develop the new proposals for Europe-wide regulations and much of the UK Government’s recent work to develop drone regulations are in line with future EASA plans. The UK is currently working to implement this regulation. I am registered as a UK drone operator. Will that registration be recognised in EU countries? The UK registration system is currently being further developed to meet the requirements set out by EASA for the future EU drone registration scheme." Edited February 16, 2021 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 And there I was saying what jolly good chaps the CAA were. I feel rather let down and disappointed if they have messed this up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: And there I was saying what jolly good chaps the CAA were. I feel rather let down and disappointed if they have messed this up. Me too. I've been a bit dismayed by all the moaning and grumbling about the new numbers, but I think I'm about to join them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Unbelievable! At least the CAA have stated that they will not be re-issuing Operator numbers - until they change their minds again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: And there I was saying what jolly good chaps the CAA were. I feel rather let down and disappointed if they have messed this up. Yes, it will certainly be annoying if we all have to change our numbers again because of an avoidable error on the CAAs part. TBH though if remote ID is made mandatory this will be a relatively minor element of a much larger inconvenience... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I like the word 'concatenation' - I must remember it and use it more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 How longs a piece of "String" in theory, 19 characters at present. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I hear from a trusted source that the EU regulations regarding remote IDs were not carried over into UK law - although that's not to say that we won't get electronic conspicuity imposed on us in the future and that the CAA numbers and registrations are not mutually recognised by EASA.. I'm none the wiser as to why the CAA decided to go with the 19 digit format but it seems a fairly trivial effort to produce labelling against the efforts most of us go to in building or assembling our models. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 So, if I understand the past few posts correctly, we are now expected to change last year's absurdly long numbers for another set of absurdly long numbers that don't meet the EASA standard (which would at least give some purpose to al this!) and may be simply randomly generated nonsense numbers. Hmm. I agree the effort is trivial Martin, but so is this requirement. If it meets no international standard, why bother? It just annoys me to be expected tor remove the darn number I painted and wrote on all my models last year, for some arbitrary tomfoolery by a bored civil servant ! I think I should ask again- has anyone actually been asked for a number yet? Is any of this worth doing? It seems to me that if 'the authorities' were to successfully write down my existing, now out of date, number they could figure fairly quickly whose model they are looking at - or do they throw away all 'old' records? So it does its job for now anyway. Maybe I should wait till after a suitable furore has been made and the numbers are 'adjusted' to allow British modellers to use their machines overseas, then write on the final useful number... Eheu. Truly they do manage to be the Campaign Against... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 To be fair to the CAA, they did make repeated efforts to stress that labelling should be easily removable as the change was known about and publicised from the onset of numbering which, if memory serves correctly, was imposed on the CAA prior to EASA requirements by the DfT despite their reservations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 My brain hurts...! ? -- Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Peter Christy said: My brain hurts...! ? -- Pete Hmmm - here's one for the moderators! Doesn't this ( ? )smiley breach the Code of Conduct? ?? Talking of which. Where can the said "Code of Conduct" and the other one (Terms and Conditions?) links be found nowadays? They used to appear under each forum edit box. Edited February 17, 2021 by Gary Manuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Thanks Martin - I do recall the pressure form DfT but had not noticed any comment about making labelling removable. Sloppy of me & unfair to blame the CAA for that. Luckily a little IPA (the chemical not the beer!) has taken the markings off my models without damage. John B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Surely you need to leave the markings on until they are updated, otherwise you cannot fly those models. There does not seem to be any sign of new numbers being issued yet does there? Somewhere it was mentioned that the new marking might be same as old but with a prefix like GBR ( maybe mentioned on BMFA webinar? ) so the old mark may only need a prefix added anyway. We have to wait and see.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Gary Manuel said: Hmmm - here's one for the moderators! Doesn't this ( ? )smiley breach the Code of Conduct? ?? Talking of which. Where can the said "Code of Conduct" and the other one (Terms and Conditions?) links be found nowadays? They used to appear under each forum edit box. Hover Browse, bar below on left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, kc said: Surely you need to leave the markings on until they are updated, otherwise you cannot fly those models. There does not seem to be any sign of new numbers being issued yet does there? Somewhere it was mentioned that the new marking might be same as old but with a prefix like GBR ( maybe mentioned on BMFA webinar? ) so the old mark may only need a prefix added anyway. We have to wait and see.. KC I've got my new number and it's nothing like the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, kc said: Surely you need to leave the markings on until they are updated, otherwise you cannot fly those models. There does not seem to be any sign of new numbers being issued yet does there? Somewhere it was mentioned that the new marking might be same as old but with a prefix like GBR ( maybe mentioned on BMFA webinar? ) so the old mark may only need a prefix added anyway. We have to wait and see.. Although I'm still awaiting my email, the numbers have been coming through for several days and many of my clubmates have received theirs. I don't believe that there has ever been any indication that they would remain the same but with a prefix and I attended the webinar... Perhaps you've confused the statements that UK registrations will have a prefix identifying the country in the same way other countries will have them - in both cases followed by unique identifiers issued by each country's authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, john stones 1 Moderator said: Hover Browse, bar below on left. Not sure what you mean John. I am on a mobile phone at the moment and can't see anywhere to hover or browse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Leave your cursor over the word browse... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Thanks Martin / John. That makes sense now I'm sat in front of my PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Also makes sense on mobile now I know what I'm looking for. Clicking on the hamburger brings up menu with Browse then Code of Conduct. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 John Stones teaching Gary techy stuff, wait while I tell lads at field. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, john stones 1 Moderator said: John Stones teaching Gary techy stuff, wait while I tell lads at field. ? Yep - still fumbling my way round the new site, but it's very much growing on me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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