Peter Goldsmith Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Hello all, I have recently obtained a used multiplex heron and on looking at what other people have their control surfaces set too, it looks very complicated. Now out of practice with the lockdown here too, my question is, could I set up my heron using flaps as in a normal plane setup to start with, to get the hang of flying this for the first few times, or is it essential that I use crow etc set up. I would be flying from a flat field only, not slope soaring. Do not really want to make things too complicated for the first few flights. Thanks in advance for any advice. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinBrian Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I often landed mine without Flaps/Crow especially in a breeze so I am sure flaps would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Peter you could fly it perfectly well without any flaps at all, just your landings will be long & flat. Personally I never use the flaps on their own, just in butterfly for landing. Butterfly needs all the 5mm down elevator compensation & I strongly suspect that flaps alone will need at least the same. If you fly Spektrum (.SPM file) or Jeti (.jsn file) I've attached my programming which you could put in a separate memory to play with & move over to as when you are ready. This gives 3 flight modes: 1) Launch - Motor on Throttle stick, butterfly disabled. 2) Cruise - Throttle stick inactive. 3) Landing - Butterfly on Throttle stick, Motor inactive. You could therefore fly around as you propose just using Flight Mode 1 - Launch. The Flight Mode 2, Cruise, I mainly use for transiting between Landing & Launch. EG if you are coming in to land after flying around in Launch mode you will have the throttle closed. If you switch immediately to Landing with the throttle closed you will get full Crow. Passing through Cruise enables you to open the throttle stick fully on the glide approach & then switch to Landing mode & control the Butterfly using the Throttle stick in a natural sense. If you need to go around apply full Throttle stick & snap from Landing through Cruise to Launch you get full motor, no Crow & away you go. A few caveats: 1) My Heron is built from the kit & has a variety of servos. This of course may mean you will need to reverse &/or amend the throws/neutrals on your set up. The elevator compensation with throttle & crow may also need tweaking. 2) I'm using quite old firmware on my DX9 - V1.06, but I don't think that it should alter things. The Jeti is up to date. 3) I fly Mode 2. 4) Flight Modes are on switch B (DX9) or SA (DS24) 5) Throttle Cut is on switch H or SG 5) If you already have an existing file called 'Heron' on you Tx you may need to rename either that or my file. 014~3 Heron.SPM 0009Hero.jsn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 My friend flies his Heron as you describe as the radio he is using won't do crow unless it is in glider mode and then you can't do throttle on the stick! and he's not comfortable if the throttle isn't on the stick. It's OK and the flaps do slow it down on landing, not as easy as the crow braking on mine (on the the throttle stick), but he's more comfortable flying with it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Peter Goldsmith said: Hello all, I have recently obtained a used multiplex heron and on looking at what other people have their control surfaces set too, it looks very complicated. Now out of practice with the lockdown here too, my question is, could I set up my heron using flaps as in a normal plane setup to start with, to get the hang of flying this for the first few times, or is it essential that I use crow etc set up. I would be flying from a flat field only, not slope soaring. Do not really want to make things too complicated for the first few flights. Thanks in advance for any advice. Peter. What radio do you have? If you intend to set up crow on it eventually, why not do so for the first flights when it makes it easier and safer to land where you want it? The complexity if there is any is with the setup, but a model with crow is not really any more complex to fly than a 4 servo wing machine without, and it’s much easier to land where you want with minimum energy and risk of a tip stall. Edited February 18, 2021 by MattyB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Goldsmith Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 Thanks for replies, tx is futaba 14sg. I too prefer throttle on the stick, so would it be possible to put crow braking on a switch, slider of rotary control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Peter, it should be, but I'm not an expert on the 14sg, so you'd need to read the manual. But crow braking is best on a proportional control, it's a glider and power is only there to get you to thermal hunting height, landing is power off using crow to adjust the approach and landing. If you try to drop the flaps and then try and use power to adjust the landing, like you might on a power model, it will be much less successful. On all gliders, spoilers or crow are always on the stick and where power is available this is on a slider, but I know some power fliers find this "uncomfortable" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Friend 1 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) Hi Peter, I have a Heron and fly it using a Futaba 14SG like you. I have the crow braking on the Throttle stick (channel 3) and the motor on the left-hand side slider. This arrangement works very well for me and it has done for the past couple of years. Most pilots flying power assisted gliders seem to use this arrangement. David Ashby wrote a short article on this subject last year and it is well worth a read. (David , heads-up please on which issue it was in. Thanks) I use the side slider for motor speed, as when launching I climb away at 2/3rd to max motor speed and when at the desired height shut the motor down and start looking for thermals. When landing, I use the throttle stick to adjust glider height and speed in conjunction with the elevator to achieve a spot landing - great fun! I know you said that you prefer throttle on the stick but you will find that flying a powered glider, that you don't use the motor much and you will find it is not possible to control the landing approach accurately enough using either a switch or rotary knob. Most of us flying powered gliders have tried the switch or knob option, but all that I know have ended up putting crow braking on the throttle stick. The benefit of having the crow braking on the throttle stick, is that as you won't have power on during the landing, you use the crow-braking as a throttle, juggling it as necessary to achieve a landing precisely where you want it, preferably at your feet if your field allows it. Most enjoyable and satisfying. Have fun, Regards, Eric Edited February 18, 2021 by Eric Friend 1 Added a note for David Ashby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Peter, I maidened my Heron (kit version) between lockdown 1 and 2 and set it up with crow on the throttle stick and throttle on a slider. This was the first time I had used this arrangement and it works well, you just have to remember where the throttle is. I'm now going to change all my e.gliders that have crow enabled to this method as it seems more natural. Cheers, Bob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Friend 1 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I found David Ashby's excellent article on crow/butterfly braking (as mentioned in my previous posting), in the May 2020 issue of RCM&E starting on page 27. If you are new to the 'facility' it is definitely worth a read. Even if you are already using crow braking on your gliders, read it as well, as there is some very useful information there and in fact the article is much longer than I recall - well worth a re-read.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Goldsmith Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 Thank you Eric, but I have a problem there, due to the lockdown from last year, I did not recieve the may issue?, living in Germany, is it possible to read a digital version back issue here on the website, I tried but could not find anything. Or maybe someone could attach a photo of said article. ?hmm, just had a rush of something to the brain, maybe I got a digital copy instead, must look on my pc, hopefully it was saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Friend 1 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Good morning Peter, If you are a subscriber to the digital version, to get to the Digital Archive of the magazine first go to the main RCM&E Home page , then scroll right down to the bottom and under Subscriptions you will find the link to Digital Archive, click on that and you will find all of the issues back to 2007 in digital form. The May 2020 issue is there as I checked it out online last night rather than dig out my printed copy. Easy, peasey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Goldsmith Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 Why is it so hard to post a reply here. Logging in for the umpteenth time, password not recognized , email address is used by another user. So last try today. Thanks Eric, I did eventually find the article in the archives and makes sense, so in the time before we can fly here again I can try some setting up on the bench, with prop removed of course, so a bit of reading for me now it seems 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Peter Goldsmith said: Why is it so hard to post a reply here. Logging in for the umpteenth time, password not recognized , email address is used by another user. So last try today. Thanks Eric, I did eventually find the article in the archives and makes sense, so in the time before we can fly here again I can try some setting up on the bench, with prop removed of course, so a bit of reading for me now it seems Good decision - far better to have is set up as you really want it from the first flight, even if it does mean some additional TX setup skills need to be learnt. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Friend 1 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 19 hours ago, Peter Goldsmith said: Why is it so hard to post a reply here. Logging in for the umpteenth time, password not recognized , email address is used by another user. So last try today. Thanks Eric, I did eventually find the article in the archives and makes sense, so in the time before we can fly here again I can try some setting up on the bench, with prop removed of course, so a bit of reading for me now it seems Yes, I found it difficult to log-in for the first day and I had the same message about my email as you. I eventually was able to get a consistent log-in using my User Name and a new password - Phew! Agreed, make sure you remove the prop! I had an incident last summer when setting up the Heron on the table on the patio and for some reason, (must have been a senior moment ☹️), I decided to create a new model memory with the RX still turned on and as I did that, the motor started up! Luckily the Heron was sitting in one of the Overlander blue foam model stands, so it didn't go anywhere before I was pull the XT60 connector apart. Result, end of the stand hacked away a bit, a prop with shredded trailing edges, a shocked modeller and a salutary lesson learnt - remove the prop when setting up an electric model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad taggart Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Some good info here re set-up of Heron https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=21046.25 RC groups also has plenty of info on the Heron - 245 pages ! The posts on crow are here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/search.php?searchid=80290851&query=Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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