Novice Pilot. Novice Builder.

[David Davis]

Frans Coormans, from Belgium, is the most recently-joined member of my club, Berry Marche Modelisme,or B2M here in the centre of France. Though he has tried learning how to fly on the buddy box on electric four channel foamies and on ARTF balsa and ply four channel glow powered trainers but he has preferred flying my Double Size Tomboy because it flies so slowly and it is so automatically stable in light airs. Its flying characteristics give him more thinking time between manouvres and in this way he has become more confident with experience. This reinforces my view that older beginners are better off starting out on a three channel vintage model. Others may disagree and suggest electric foamies as being much more suitable and that vintage models are more guided free flight than radio control, but I'm old school! Besides, my first successful r/c model was a Flair Junior 60 so I'm biased! 

 

The plan of my Double Sized Tomboy was drawn up by my Uncle Geoff who was a draughtsmen. The fuselage is made from 1/4" (6mm) square balsa and I think that it's insufficiently robust for the rough and tumble of flight training. I have some degree of sentimental attachment to this model as it was Geoff who taught me how to build when I was eleven years old and I'm not going to let a complete novice even attempt to land it! I explained that vintage models have to be built and cannot be bought ready to fly and though Frans had never built a model of any description before, he was keen to try.

 

I explained the difference between plan building, short kits and full kits. Frans opted for a full kit for his first build. Our first choice was for the Radio Queen from Ben Buckle kits, a replica of the first model aeroplane to cross the English Channel. It's a large and robust model very easy to see and fly. I wish I'd never sold my mine now, it was ideal for nervous elderly beginners! However, when I phoned Colin Buckle, the proprietor of Ben Buckle Kits, I was told that the Radio Queen was not currently available so we opted for the Electric Junior 60 instead. There were two versions of the Junior 60, the original free flight 1946 version and a strengthened and wider version which came out in 1958 IIRC. The Ben Buckle model is based on the 1946 original.

 

I have attached few pictures of the dramatis personae and models referred to above. The Radio Queen is being held by my much younger self! We bought some plasterboard yesterday started the build. We managed to get one fuselage side finished.

 

More to follow.

 

 

 

   

[GrumpyGnome]

Pne of our club jembers has the BB EJ60.... amply (more than in my opinion) powered by a setup from 4max. Beautiful in very calm weather but quite s challenge in more than a gentle breeze. Hopefully it is calmer whee you are, than England's Norrh East coast.

Wish h8m the best of luck with it.

GG

[David Davis]

I know what you mean Gnome. I have a Seagull Boomerang here in La Belle France for windier weather. Frans has not yet reached the level of skill necceasy to be able to fly it.

[Geoff S]

I was 55 when I learned to fly. Is that old?  I learned on a Precedent Hiboy and a trainer I built myself and both were four channel.  I've never seen any real difference between 3 and 4 channel trainers for 'normal' 2 dimensional flying.  In fact, I think having a separate rudder makes take-offs easier.  I think the only 3 channel model I have with an undercarriage is a  Lazy Bee and I mix rudder and aileron 100% so I can do my usual left-hand steering on the ground.

 

 

[David Davis]

15 hours ago, Geoff S said:

I was 55 when I learned to fly. Is that old?  I learned on a Precedent Hiboy and a trainer I built myself and both were four channel.  I've never seen any real difference between 3 and 4 channel trainers for 'normal' 2 dimensional flying.  In fact, I think having a separate rudder makes take-offs easier.  I think the only 3 channel model I have with an undercarriage is a  Lazy Bee and I mix rudder and aileron 100% so I can do my usual left-hand steering on the ground.

 

 

Geoof, I'm not saying that it's impossible for a 55 year old to learn to fly on a four channel model though my opinion of the Hiboy trainer leads me to the view that you leant to fly despite the Hiboy rather than because of it! ?

 

In my experience older beginners benefit from a few hours on a more stable three channel model such as a Junior 60 before moving on to ailerons. I am willing to concede that Iam biased as this was the route I took.

 

Others may find that electric foamies are better trainers than vintage models but as they are not my main interest in aeromodelling I wouldn't know about that.  Frans is 70 not 55 incidentally and it was his wish to learn how to build.

 

We have made some good progress over the last two days. Frans learns quickly.

 

 

[David Davis]

Frans and I have finished the basic structure.

Being based on the 1946 free flight version of the Junior 60, the framework is extremely light which should make it fly even more slowly than the later broader version which was my first successful r/c model aeroplane. We are arranging an appointment with a clubmate to have the undercarriage silver soldered.

 

 

[David Davis]

We spent yesterday afternoon working on the Junior 60. The covering contains a few cosmetic faults but I've let them go otherwise it would be me building the model and not Frans. It's turning out pretty well considering that Frans has never built a model aeroplane before, not even a little Keil Kraft or Guillows rubber powered free flight job.

[David Davis]

We covered the tailplane and top hinged the elevators on Monday.

[Ron Gray]

Frank’s looks like he’s enjoying himself!

[David Davis]

23 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Frank’s looks like he’s enjoying himself!

I think so.

 

He's already planning his second build, Peter Russell's "STOL," and he's asked his son to buy the wood for him from a modelshop in Bruges.

 

We should have the Junior 60 finished this weekend. We will fly it if it's not too windy.

Edited April 22, 2021 by David Davis

[David Davis]

Frans and I fitted the cockpit windows yesterday. Because he was so busy with other things he elected only to have one window at the side of the model instead of three. The front glazing, which is normally such a pain to fit went on perfectly straight away! That was a first! It was too windy for a maiden flight yesterday but the wind is forecast to moderate on Tuesday so we will be flying it then for the first time.

[Cuban8]

What a great story. It goes to show that IMHO, there is no one size fits all method of learning to fly an R/C model aeroplane if the pupil is to enjoy the experience, and at the same time make progress and not become discouraged. 

I don't subscribe to the 3CH/4Ch foamy is better than vintage or vice versa argument because beginners are different in their expectations and abilities to learn. I can think of a chap in my club who took up R/C a while ago after he retired (typical new aeromodeller these days) and is now a very competent flyer of ARTF sports models and civilian scale types, who would have been bored stiff with putting a traditional build together and just to have it float around in very sedate manner. I doubt if he'd have continued with the hobby if the somewhat tortuous  'traditional route' was the only one open to him. He coped with his 4 channel ARTF IC trainer as well as any I've come across over the years and rarely had a broken model to repair.

On the other hand, I've seen much younger types who have trouble managing the most sedate of foamies.

Fit the pupil to the model type and go on from there - scare a nervous type with a more challenging model or send a more coordinated pupil to sleep with a big vintage model, either way the risk is that they won't stay the course and allow the bug to really bite.

 

[peter muckleston]

 A real heart warming story. It's never too late to learn!

[David Davis]

You make some good points Cuban, it's just that in my experience older beginners benefit from something which flies slowly. Once having mastered slow flight they can move on to something more demanding and I keep a Seagull Boomerang powered by an Enya 50 SS for that. Once they can fly the Boomerang, I expect them to provide their own model for the next stage. I'm blowed if I'm going to be repairing trainers damaged in landing accidents for the rest of my life! ?

 

We maidened the thing this morning. I was immediately aware that we had a few problems. The motor, selected by the oldest man in the club, a retired engineer and exclusively an electric flyer these days, proved to be much too powerful. Electric flight is not really my thing but I'm aware that about 50 Watts per lb (110 Watts per kilo,) is usually sufficient for a vintage model like a Junior 60. It had pulled 35 amps on test and given a 3S LiPo, that's not far short of 400 Watts! I haven't weighed the model but I suspect that it weighs about 4 lbs, (1.8 kilos) no wonder it climbed like the proverbial rat up a drainpipe.

 

Secondly, I'd read on one of the forums that Junior 60s were not that sensitive to the CG position. This one was! With full down trim I brought her into a good landing. We added lead to the nose and introduced some downthrust on the motor. The next flight was better but the motor was still too powerful. On the advice of the club's president, we added small piece of ply under the trailing edge of the wing and tried again. It flew in a very non-Junior 60, diving on the glide when the power was shut off, so I brought it in again and added another washer of downthrust.

 

The third flight was much better. Frans was on the buddy box and he enjoyed himself for several minutes on low throttle settings. Then he asked me to land it. I shut off the motor and the model glided for several minutes without losing much altitude.

 

Having been advised by George Stringwell, who is very knowledgeable about electric flight and vintage models and is the former British and Irish glider champion, I will try progressively smaller propellers until the motor is drawing about 20 amps. Then Frans will have a much more manageable model.

 

The camera snappers in the club recorded the event for posterity!

 

 

 

 

[David Davis]

My collegues surprised me with a video of the construction and first flight of the Junior 60. There's also some footage of me flying my Baron. I hadn't flown it for a year. It was way out of trim and the engine needed tweaking.

 

https://www.facebook.com/gerard.vandermeulen.3/videos/10208726038545256/