Dave Brooks Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Good afternoon all, I thought it was about time I put my head above the parapet as I've been following activity on the forum for some while without actually posting anything. I've picked up much useful information and inspiration just by reading all the great posts that appear on here and its reached the point where I feel as though I already know many of the regular contributors and it feels a bit rude not to at least say hello and thank you! I've been interested in model aviation since I was a lot younger (I'm 43 now so its not all that long ago!) and grew up in Much Marcle, overlooking the model flying field. From as early as I can remember the sound of model engines became synonymous with warm balmy summer weekends and my brothers and I used to walk down to the show across the fields from our house and hop in over the back fence. Thinking about it that's probably why I have such a continuing attraction to IC engines. It wasn't however until about 10 years ago when the arrival of children somewhat curbed other activities such as motorbikes and the band (other activities that I note with interest seem to go hand in hand with aeromodelling!) that I realised I now had the disposable income and time at home to look at some (semi-)serious modelling. I also discovered by accident the concept of model diesel (compression combustion) engines which where a little bit before my time in terms of peak popularity but just a fascinating idea. I promptly got hold of a second hand throttled PAW .19 and after some initial consternation successfully managed to run it and fly it in a Vic Smeed 'Electra' that I scratch built from plans downloaded from Outerzone (to which website I have become hopelessly addicted). Various scratch builds and refurbishments have followed and I am now well and truly a lost cause and trying my best to drag my two sons down with me. I'm a member of the local club in the North East and last year, in the brief late summer window when we were allowed out for a bit, I managed to pass my 'A' achievement. Still learning but hopefully safe enough. I'm still happiest with something relatively slow and stable which allows time to relax a bit and enjoy the flying and the sound of those magical engines. My latest build has been a standoff scale 58" span Tiger Moth partly made of cardboard and with, joy of all things, a laser 70 up front. Still basking in the glow of a successful maiden flight on Saturday! I might post a bit more about that on another thread at some point but have included a snap from Saturdays flight that my son took for interest! Anyway, the plan is to do a little less lurking and a little more contributing going forward with best wishes to all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Welcome Dave. As you have discovered, aeromodelling is a one-way street. Heroin and cocaine may be considered mildly addictive but stick a trannie in a man's hand and he is REALLY hooked. As for diesels, they do have a certain attraction but the lingering reek of paraffin is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Welcome Dave. When you've exhausted the aircraft chat, head over to my place with a virtual cuppa in hand to chat bands and bikes! Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 Thanks both for the warm welcome. I even quite like the burnt diesel smell. Strictly in the shed though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 welcome from me Dave, ken anderson...ne..1..welcome dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 Thanks Ken, much appreciated. Am I right in thinking you are also somewhere in the NE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Welcome from me too Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Perfect Trifecta David. Busking in front of a lingerie shop. Respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, Graham Davies 3 said: Perfect Trifecta David. Busking in front of a lingerie shop. Respect! I was participating in the Big Busk. We were raising money for the homeless shelter in Shrewsbury. https://www.the-bigbusk.co.uk/ But that shop has cost me a fortune in former times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Money well spent, I'm sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 A 58" stand off scale Tiger Moth partly made of cardboard sounds interesting. Any details? Close up pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 A special welcome for another diesel burner. Pic is my first engine. Cheers John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Graham Davies 3 said: Money well spent, I'm sure! Little French size 8.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 Thanks David, Clearly a man of impeccable taste! I can't compete on the undergarment front, and have some catching up to do there. My old timer isn't anywhere near as big as yours either! My bright yellow Triumph RS went in 2009! Lovely bike and I've regretted selling it ever since. That FROG looks like a trusty veteran John! I haven't strayed beyond PAWs yet, apart from a DC Merlin which I haven't had any joy with. Can get to fire but won't run for long. I suspect its just too long in the tooth. Hello Simon. Thanks for the interest in the TM. In light of the supposed balsa shortage I was thinking about alternatives and had seen some plans on Outerzone using corrugated cardboard. At about the same time we got a load of Covid screens delivered to work in large cardboard boxes which I promptly nabbed to 'upcycle' into Tiger Moth wings to see how it went (some pics below). Main spars are 1/4 inch balsa with 1/16 sheet webbing with a ply rib at the root and a ply rib at the interplane strut attachment point. All the rest of the ribs are cardboard with cardboard skins top and bottom. Made out of 1 piece and folded over at the leading edge and taped at the trailing edge its strong enough without and additional support. I even managed to fold in the ailerons so the card forms its own hinge. Its not going to win any competitions but looks passable at 6 feet and takes a spray paint finish really well. Its cheap and quick and after Saturday's flight seems to fly well. Similar in weight to a foam cored wing I would estimate. The fuselage is 1/4 inch plywood I picked up from a building site and a 1/4 inch balsa rear frame. The horizontal stab is 1/4 sheet recycled from another model and the rudder is two thicknesses of card with corrugations at 90 degrees and covered in brown paper for good measure. I think this is starting to warp slightly though so may have to be replaced or receive some extra stiffening somehow. The rigging is functional and made from picture wire from the local hardware shop. Closed loop rudder and elevator also using picture wire (75p per roll and I used two and a half for the whole plane). The pilot is RCAF! Shortly after that we had a new shower cubicle fitted which was delivered in several large flat sheets of cardboard so now I'm wondering whether the concept would stretch to something a bit more complicated....... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Dave That is an interesting form of construction and probably makes about as good a use of cardboard as is realistically possible. You said it take spray paint well so I assume that cardboard had a pretty smooth surface to start with. In my experience 'packing case' corrugated has a pretty absorbent surface that would require a lot of paint. I did build a 40" cardboard wing using the carboard from cereal packets over close spaced foam ribs with a foam shear web so no spar as such. A true monocoque structure with all the stresses take through the skin. Being limited by the size of the cereal packet the wing had to be made up in four sections. Inboard Outboard As all the stresses are taken through the skin the sections could be simply joined with an external overlapping strip. As the cereal box was all over glossy printed and thus reasonably 'shower' resistant I left it un painted. The wing replaced an balsa reinforced foam wing on a basic pusher airframe. About 15% heavier than the original wing so it added about 5% to the all up weight but adequately strong and just as aerodynamically efficient. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 23 hours ago, Dave Brooks said: Thanks Ken, much appreciated. Am I right in thinking you are also somewhere in the NE? morning Dave,youre correct,i'm on the north east coast,fly at BVRMC ... ken anderson...ne..1......NE Coast dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 I was up that way for work yesterday Ken. I'm just outside Durham and fly at Peterlee. I like that construction method Simon. Anything that uses non-specialised materials is good in my book. I thought about using cereal packet card for skinning foam cores. I have used brown paper for this up to 52" span but didn't trust the stressed skin sufficiently so coupled with a fairly sturdy pine main spar it worked well. With the functional rigging on the TM there isn't that much cantilever strength required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Hi Dave, I am all for anything unconventional, I tend to use Depron a lot but it is hard to get now so I am using foam board or Maker foam. I do still buy kits and build conventional air frames but with the increasing cost of balsa and shortage we had for a while set me off trying to reduce the balsa content. This Seafury is built with a 1/4" square balsa frame rear of the wing and sheet forward to the bulkhead. the formers are foam board sheeted with 1/8" depron and covered with brown paper. I have just treated myself to a Seagull Chipmunk 80" span which came in a big cardboard box, so there is a possibility I have got two kits using your method. Cheers Eric. DH 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 Hi Eric, I love that Seafury! Really looks good. What do you use to glue the depron and foam board? I have been contemplating the warbird shaped gap in my hangar and wondering whether a cardboard winged Spitfire is a realistic prospect. I'm not about to part with the £300 plus it would take for a decent sized ARTF or even balsa kit so thinking about another composite construction scratch build standoff type scale model. As long as it looks about right in the air and has the overall 'feel' of the type it's good enough for my purposes. I suspect that it will be too heavy for a small model but something 60" or up might carry the weight well enough........ Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Hi Dave, I'm going to do a funfighter sized (42") spit-a-like that will be based on Ian Peacock's plan fuselage (electrified) and Peter Miller's plan 'Harmony' wing. The wing is pretty much a spitfire wing, built up. The reason being is that I like models this size as they hold little fear for me, but I want retracts, just for the sight of them going up and down! To do that, it will need to be loads lighter than my Cambrian funfighter spitfire or they'll rip out. This way I can hand launch or belly land, or neither, or both! Reason I mention it is that I am planning to use foamboard for the ribs and fuselage formers, and probably some other bits. I may skin the wings in it too, but I will cover with laminating film as a drop of water on foamboard is a bad thing. This way I will focus the strength (weight) around the ribs and spars that support the retracts, and everything else will be very light. I reckon at 42" it will come out around 2 lbs ready to fly with a 2200 3S pack. Both plans are on Outerzone, I think. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 Graham, that sounds good and I'd be interested to find out how it goes. Similar construction philosophy I think. I'm trying to use the card because I happen to have loads of it as much as anything else. I would also like retracts but a decent set at suitable size would cost more than the rest of the plane. I'll probably build fixed LG but with a view to a later upgrade if it warrants it. There seem to be a few potential plans on OZ that would provide a good starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 I also have to hand launch and belly land a light weight foam over grass even though it has retracts. In fact I have the gear down to launch as I use the wheel wells to give it a push with and then retract the gear to land. Bizarre. It works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Nothing wrong with that Simon; very sensible. Dave, regarding the retracts, I have some cheap mechanical all ali retracts I plan to use. One servo in the middle and lightweight wheels to limit the load. Robust, light and once the linkage faff is resolved, reliable. And, er, cheap! £15 the set, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Brooks Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 Thanks Graham, they sound ideal. Any idea where you got them from? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Yes Dave, Ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-Metal-Mechanical-Retract-Shelves-110mm-Length-Undercarriage/362278794097 Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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