Rudder Authority?

[Philip Lewis 3]

If you think about it logically a stall turn is a momentary prop hang followed by a rudder turn, so what I do is establish the plane on the upline then to slow down I reduce the throttle to idle, but as it starts to get really slow I then put the throttle back on to where it won't climb but doesn't flop over easily either and is just enough to "hang" for a moment, at that point I put the stick in the corner (mode 2) and with electric it helps to have a small throttle delay so that the rudder kicks in straightaway but the motor is still reducing to idle so you still have airflow over the rudder as the stick is put full over and down, just my two penny worth anyway.    

[charlie holdford]

Hi Guys,

 

Well putting the ideas into practice was fun today. Bottom line is I can now perform what would pass as a stall turn!

 

A crosswind did not help as it would only turn one way.

 

So straight and level fed in the power up into wind did not take the throttle down much and before it stopped blipped the throttle as I put in full rudder and over she went. Horah!

 

As for the sudo tick over, I always have the prop turning a little as it helps slow the approach especially if the wind is light. As stated you can also tell if the kill switch and failsafe are working.

 

Thanks for the advice chaps

 

Charlie

 

 

 

 

[Gary Manuel]

Result!

Nice one Charlie ?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

How's your bunts ?

[charlie holdford]

47 minutes ago, john stones 1 Moderator said:

How's your bunts ?

John, no problem with the other parts, so just a little more practice on the stall turns and getting the rolls in the correct place we shoud be able to put it all together.....

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

6 minutes ago, charlie holdford said:

John, no problem with the other parts, so just a little more practice on the stall turns and getting the rolls in the correct place we shoud be able to put it all together.....

 

Good luck Charlie, and enjoy it. ?

[Peter Jenkins]

And after you have got your B don't let your skills drop off.  Look at ways of improving.  The Aerobatic C will take you some time to perfect and you will really need a proper aerobatic aircraft for that.  However, why not think about taking up competition precision aerobatics?  Check out the GBRCAA website and click on the on the New to Aerobatics tab.  You'll find all the schedules under the GBRCAA Schedules tab.  The Clubman Schedule, the entry schedule, has most of the B manoeuvres as well a couple of new ones so not a lot to learn.  BUT, the big difference will be that you fly the manoeuvres as a schedule so that will take some getting used to.   

 

You will learn so much if you decide to take up precision aerobatics and it's great fun.

[Frank Skilbeck]

14 hours ago, charlie holdford said:

Hi Guys,

 

Well putting the ideas into practice was fun today. Bottom line is I can now perform what would pass as a stall turn!

 

A crosswind did not help as it would only turn one way.

 

Charlie

 

 

 

 

But flying the other way and it would then stall turn in the opposite direction.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Good point. There’s no requirement to perform the stall turn in a particular direction (other than the interpretation that it must not be towards the imaginary crowd line...which I struggle to see as a manoeuvre performed toward it, but that’s the way it has been decreed) so you are free to perform it (with appropriate calling) from a flight line in either direction in order to take advantage of a model’s directional preference. 

[Simon Chaddock]

I hate to say this but does the wind. from any direction. make a difference to a stall turn?

A plane may turn better one way better then the other but that has nothing to do with the wind direction.

Wind direction can certainly can alter the appearance of a stall when viewed from the ground. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Quite right but the scheme guidance states that the turn has to be away from the flight line so if there's a better way (engine torque/slipstream or other factors may influence this) then you are free to choose whether you perform it up or down wind in order to take advantage of any preference.

[Peter Jenkins]

The test requires that you must correct for any cross wind so it is much easier to turn towards the wind direction as the aircraft is already canted over in that direction.  The stall turn looks better than turning away from the wind direction when the wind will push the model downwind and make the stall turn look more like a wingover.  So, arrange your stall turn so that you are turning away from the crowd line but into the cross wind.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I've always aimed to describe a vertical line relative to the ground but if my interpretation is correct, the full size requirement is for the aircraft to fly vertical relative to the zero lift axis i.e. vertical relative to the air mass and with no yaw, so must drift with any head/cross wind...  Is the manoeuvre judged differently in model aerobatic competitions?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

9 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

I've always aimed to describe a vertical line relative to the ground but if my interpretation is correct, the full size requirement is for the aircraft to fly vertical relative to the zero lift axis i.e. vertical relative to the air mass and with no yaw, so must drift with any head/cross wind...  Is the manoeuvre judged differently in model aerobatic competitions?

 

I believe in comps, your model should stay on the line you entered at, if you need to crab at 45% that's what you do.

I honestly don't get why the stall turn must be away from you, you can do it either end and even reposition, it's performed down/upwind am I nitpicking to say it's nitpicking ?

 

[Bob Cotsford]

1 hour ago, john stones 1 Moderator said:

I honestly don't get why the stall turn must be away from you, you can do it either end and even reposition, it's performed down/upwind am I nitpicking to say it's nitpicking ?

 

Isn't it to keep in line with the general safety principal that turns/manoeuvres should be performed away from the flightline wherever possible?

[Philip Lewis 3]

2 hours ago, john stones 1 Moderator said:

 

I believe in comps, your model should stay on the line you entered at, if you need to crab at 45% that's what you do.

I honestly don't get why the stall turn must be away from you, you can do it either end and even reposition, it's performed down/upwind am I nitpicking to say it's nitpicking ?

 

Correct, it should stay on the same line relative to the ground, then when stalled it should drift with the wind and then a new point for the start of the down line is established once it has pivoted. There is no requirement to straighten it up to vertical at the top so as Peter says do the stall turn into the wind as the aircraft will always turn a lot easier that way. This video explains it pretty well (4.00 minutes in if you want to shortcut to the pivot). 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

2 hours ago, Bob Cotsford said:

 

Isn't it to keep in line with the general safety principal that turns/manoeuvres should be performed away from the flightline wherever possible?

That's lead to some interesting conversations.  I've heard one interpretation where it's been stated that a roll should be started away from the pilot...I don't know about you but more or less any roll that I've seen go wrong has been after the model is inverted and it usually skews out towards the flight line!

 

I've always been with John on the stall turn direction - done correctly it should fall within a wingspan so there's virtually no energy ever vectored toward the "crowd".  I believe that should be the critical factor, not simply the direction the nose swings through...

[Bob Cotsford]

Martin, I couldn't agree more about the roll misadventures and while I agree that a completed stall turn should ideally take up no more than a wingspan I'm pretty sure that performing it away from the flightline used to be stated as an emphasis of the principle that you keep the motor pointing away as far as is possible.

Having witnessed aerobatics performed far too close to the flightline on many occasions I don't think it's a bad habit to get into.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I take your point about it being a reminder but is it any worse than the three turn spin which presents the engine to the flight/crowd line 3 times while the model is also in a stalled flight condition?  Not to mention the figure 8 which aims the nose at every person on the flight line twice while at normal flying speed...

 

Totally subjective, but I feel that a stall turn looks better and more controlled when performed in the "wrong" direction. Doesn't stop me requiring it in the other direction during a B test though!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Bunt performed in front and center, tell me anything in the B test liable to go wrong more bigly than that one ?