911hillclimber Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 Crashes, stiff gusts close to big trees. Flyaway is a theory as where we clearly saw the plane come down was behind a big tree into a field of very tall grass (18") and after 30 mins of 3 of us trampling around, found nothing so have assumed the actions to get the plane back up were unseen but happened. could easily have gone into another field but then private land.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) Flying in strong gusts near trees with a lightly loaded model is not generally recommended, particularly if control corrections are not instinctive yet. Getting a slope soarer like an SAS Wild Thing for instance (which is pretty indestructible) is a good solution if you are lucky enough to have a suitable hill within commuting distance. WILDTHING video. Regarding flyaways, from my experience the model will invariably come down much, much, further away than you thought possible. If that means it has come down on private land it is worth respectfully approaching the owner and asking if it would be possible for you to carry out a search. Failing that, leave your name and phone number with the owner in case it turns up. It is usually best to put your name and address on any model as it is amazing how they can simply disappear into the smallest of bushes! Edited June 23, 2021 by Piers Bowlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 CAA op number.....perhaps modern Rx computer majicbox can transmit a beacon signal....mind you do TV's have these for the remote.... Beacon that transmits 5 mins after radio contact lost, transmits untill Rx battery is flat..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I can recommend the sas skitsue, e + a, great plane, hope they make it again, would get another wing and make it ic powered 3 channel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Get a pack of these. Cheap as chips and emits a very loud noise once you switch your Tx off, making locating your errant glider very easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I am assuming the crashes and flyaways were not with your model? I would hope your instructor would take into account weather consitions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 21 hours ago, 911hillclimber said: Tried to fly today, but the sock was horizontal most of the time and gusting. 2 models into the ground and one AWOL, couldn't find it even though we thought we saw where it came down, so somewhat dis-spirited, came home. This is tougher by the week! I am absolutely and totally appalled that someone could turn up at a club for instruction and through a complete lack of safety and flying condition awareness result in crashed and lost models. This displays a complete lack of regard to flying safely and providing suitable instruction to the trainee. OK as the trainee gets to grips then it is necessary to fly lower which gives less time for the instructor or trainee to recover and dumb thumbs can happen, but we should be instilling the safety aspects that the BMFA promote clearly. Is that not the point of instruction? I am just not comfortable with the let them crash to learn principle from a safety and cost perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Those sirens look a good idea, maybe give warning of loss of tx signal as well whilst flying ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 23 hours ago, 911hillclimber said: Tried to fly today, but the sock was horizontal most of the time and gusting. 2 models into the ground and one AWOL, couldn't find it even though we thought we saw where it came down, so somewhat dis-spirited, came home. 1 hour ago, Chris Walby said: I am absolutely and totally appalled that someone could turn up at a club for instruction and through a complete lack of safety and flying condition awareness result in crashed and lost models. This displays a complete lack of regard to flying safely and providing suitable instruction to the trainee. OK as the trainee gets to grips then it is necessary to fly lower which gives less time for the instructor or trainee to recover and dumb thumbs can happen, but we should be instilling the safety aspects that the BMFA promote clearly. Is that not the point of instruction? I am just not comfortable with the let them crash to learn principle from a safety and cost perspective. I agree it's not super clear from 911's post, but I read it as being too windy for him to fly at all. I suspect he means that the 3 lost models were those of other (presumably fairly inexperienced) solo flyers that had sufficient problems with the conditions they crashed. I could be wrong though, perhaps 911 will clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Rich Griff said: CAA op number.....perhaps modern Rx computer majicbox can transmit a beacon signal....mind you do TV's have these for the remote.... Beacon that transmits 5 mins after radio contact lost, transmits untill Rx battery is flat..... 2 hours ago, Piers Bowlan said: Get a pack of these. Cheap as chips and emits a very loud noise once you switch your Tx off, making locating your errant glider very easy. These devices work to a point, but have been superceded by telemetry. I have had a few slopers land in fields over the years when the lift died, but have never struggeld to find one using signal strength telemetry - just walk to the roguhly right spot, stick in range test mode, then use the RSSI reading to guide you to the model. I would no longer use a system that did not have this feature, it is incredibly useful refining and improving RX installations, monitoring and alerting on RF performance in flight and finding lost models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911hillclimber Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) None of the incidents were my flights or plane. I decided it was all too strong for me even if buddied up as it puts the volunteer experienced buddy under unfair stress when it inevitably got tough. My bruised Kingfisher stayed in the boot to live for a calm/ another day. Still, learnt a bit watching for a few hours. My 'instructor' took his 4 stroke powered balsa/ply plane up and it flew great allbeit with a bumpy landing. Not a day for foam models! Edited June 23, 2021 by 911hillclimber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 @911hillclimberThat, at least, is good news. You'll have learnt a little of when discretion is the better part of valour..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911hillclimber Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 Feels like BIG progress today. Took the plane to the field to find the sock limply hanging down, overcast and the usual members there inc Martin my patient 'instructor' who i buggy box with. Had 3 battery's worth of flying, Martin always there to rescue me, take off and land, but I actually flew some good circuits and definitely got going with the coordination of the ailerons and elevator, even getting some praise from Martin and the die-hards there. I am slowly getting used to the movement/delay in the plane and also controlling the height loss when turning using the elevator plus getting used to the time and space of the field. Feeling well chuffed, no gluing required, 3 batteries to charge and 5 mins seems about right. Rest of my time was spent on Recovery Duties as 3 planes bit the dust. Excellent and encouraging 2.5 hours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 That's great news and well done I was wondering how you were getting on. It's a great feeling when you take the plane home in one piece isn't it. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davies 3 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, 911hillclimber said: Excellent and encouraging 2.5 hours. Well done 911; good on you for retaining your patience. It's the good days that insulate us from the less good ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Yes, good show, nothing like it, but 3 crashes today ? What were the he causes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911hillclimber Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 Yes, plane on the table in one piece, no glue today! The charger is humming as the first battery goes to charge, 3 more to go. Martin commented that my Buccaneer would have flown well today, so still. Landings were a bit 'stretched' as no head wind to slow them down, so a few were stopped by the tall grass (as in 1 meter tall). Crashes, some due to pilot error and one due to Tx loss, ie out of range after 100 meters or there-abouts. Happened to the same chap who had lost his plane last week, so maybe both due to a dicky Tx? The one nose dived really hard, the nose/motor/mount (glow plug) was literally in the ground 9". Rest of the plane was collected in 2 big Sainsbury's bags. Another member, new to me, arrived with 3 planes, a Wot4 and two beauties, one petrol, other electric. His mid 20's (max) son flew them both so well it hurt. The small plane, ply laser cut etc was really nice and flew even better. My goal is still to be able to bumble round with my Buccaneer and the Stol as well as this Kingfisher if I'm feeling snazzy. I hope that learning to master the K'fisher will over equip me for the simpler 3 Chanel oldies. If I achieve this I will be WELL pleased. That small modern plane of the youngster above was so nice though. Blue body, yellow wings stood out in the sky, and so well detailed when resting on the ground. Impressive. My oldest friend has caught the bug. He has started to restore/revive/modernize his Super 60 he built in about 1964 which had a single channel McGreggor RC. Another modeler has given him 2 trainer foamies with R/C gear! Are there any tablets we can take? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, 911hillclimber said: Are there any tablets we can take? Nope it becomes an addiction.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 @911hillclimberGood news, although 3 crashed planes in 2.5 hours seems a high attrition rate..... I also like the idea of a 'buggy' box ? GG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911hillclimber Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 Disappointing sums it up a bit. Went to a calmish field today, usual support team there including my Buddy link, Martin. Got in the air after the usual checks, and the plane flew well, even when i had the sticks it went quite well. The numbers of 'rescues' Martin has to grasp is getting less, however... The plane came down hard well outside the flying strip in the long grass while poor Martin was recovering it from one of my sudden aerobatic attempts, it was sa if signal was lost. The plne is salvagable but the undercarriage is off again out of the fuselage, wing spar buckled and some other more minor damage. May need a new spar this time round. Plane really looks like it's in the War Zone. We checked the plane battery after retrieval, down to 58% from 98% so not the battery. Did a distance check on reduced Tx power @40 meters, everything moved correctly. Could this be the orientation of the Rx arials? In plan view the long wire (100mm) runs alongside the battery, right up to it and the 25mm short wire runs at 90 degrees to it but on the same plane, so describingan 'L' when looking at the plane from above, plan view. The Wise Boys recon the short should point upwards, and that the long wire may be better off sticking out the side into fresh air, ie away from the battery. Appreciate any comments. Back to ebay for some parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad_flyer Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 The main thing for aerials is that they have very weak response when the end of the wire is pointing directly at the transmitter. They are best side on. The effectiveness is generally reduced if there is other metal around, like batteries, metal pushrods and wires. The actual aerial will be the final few cm, often clear plastic around a central wire, the rest is a shielded lead. So place the aerial where it is in a fairly clear environment, and if it has to be near wires then at right-angles to them is less bad. Many receivers have two aerials, placing them pointing different ways means they are never both pointing directly at the transmitter. Putting them at right angles to each other is best, but it does not matter whether that is one up and one across, or one front to back or a right angle at 45degrees to vertical. It may not be the radio at the cause. Being a bit slow and allowing the model to stall can feel as though the RC is not responding. It will not turn as you want. One of my models pretty reliably turns the wrong way when it is too slow. Another of my models too much stick movement feels like having no control, when it is actually over control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) G, When a model slows, and the airflow slows over the surfaces, it does feel like we loose contact with the model Radio, in general, is pretty reliable nowadays. I would guess the model stalled, and that does feel like you loose radio contact Dadflyer agrees Edited July 8, 2021 by Denis Watkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911hillclimber Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 Thanks for the info, I learn every day. The long wire from the Rx ran right alongside the length of the battery so along the fuselage centre line. Above it is all the wires from various sections of the plane all culminating above the ariel... The smaller one is 90 deg to the long one but still surrounded by the mirriad of servo wires. The model certainly looked stalled before pitching to the ground. The carbon (or some kind of fibre) tube is fractured mid span, so will get another carbon tube from Penn Models tomorrow, genuine tubes are out of stock. Undercarriage now glued again to the belly of the fuselage, but no other damage. Wonder how much more gluing it will take. Should add that Martin allowed me to buddy to his big 4 stroke plane for 2 good sessions, and that went quite well, it is easier to fly than the FMS today. I owe him some red wine for the fuel! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 On 08/07/2021 at 19:07, 911hillclimber said: The long wire from the Rx ran right alongside the length of the battery so along the fuselage centre line. Above it is all the wires from various sections of the plane all culminating above the ariel... The smaller one is 90 deg to the long one but still surrounded by the mirriad of servo wires. The aerial wire running directly alongside the battery is a bad idea - it has the potential to mask that aerial in certain orientations. Get both aerials away from anything metallic or carbon (though servo wires in general are too small to be an issue unless you have a really tight bunh of 4 or 5). On 08/07/2021 at 17:39, Dad_flyer said: So place the aerial where it is in a fairly clear environment, and if it has to be near wires then at right-angles to them is less bad. Many receivers have two aerials, placing them pointing different ways means they are never both pointing directly at the transmitter. Putting them at right angles to each other is best, but it does not matter whether that is one up and one across, or one front to back or a right angle at 45degrees to vertical. For aerobatic models that are regularly in all sorts of orientationjs that is probably true, but a trainer model that flys straight and level most of the time should have the RX aerials in the same plane as the TX aerial i.e. if you fly with your TX aerial horizontal, put your RX aerials in that plane too (at 90 degrees to each other) to get the most consistent signal. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1877474-Antenna-Orientation-for-2-4-GHz-Receiver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Question, can the modern 2.4 Rx aerials be extended by soldering an extension to the end ? Am I right in saying the aerial is screened for the first part of Thier length with the actual aerial being the bare end of the wire ? I assume it's better to have the aerial end outside the fuz ? Maybe protected by some heat shrink ? Still learning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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