Steve Colman Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) A short while age I asked for opinions about a diesel powered Berlingo with no service history and was provided lots of valuable advice which led to me not buying the car. Now, an opportunity has arisen for another Berlingo, a 20th anniversary edition from 2017 but, this time with the 1.2l, 3 cylinder puretech petrol engine with only 22,000 miles on the clock. As most of my journeys consist of a 15 mile round trip to my club and back and I do around 4,000 miles per year it may be a better solution for me. But.................... Of course it transpires that it may not be that simple. After some research I discover that said engine had some timing belt and oil contamination problems which in some cases resulted in ruined engines. In one case after only 33,000 miles. Apparently Citroen (and others using the same engine) did a recall on all models up to April 2017. Of course, the Berlingo I'm being offered is a 2017 model although I don't know which month. Hence my new dilemma. So, once again I would be very grateful to the wonderful members of this forum that have some experience with said engine and any advice that you may be able to offer me. Many thanks, Steve. Edited July 1, 2021 by Steve Colman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 If it was recalled the owner should have some evidence of the work that was done. If not, probably steer clear. Simples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 steve,these 3 cyl petrol jobs depend on a turbo...stick to plan A would be my plan and hold out for a diesel.... ken anderson...ne..1...diesel dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrunner Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Ken Most diesels rely on a turbo..... Phil, ex diesel owner, now happy (so far) 3 cylinder petrol owner. As an aside diesels are great for high mileage people but for 4000 miles a year petrol every time or even better electric. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 outrunner,i know about the diesels and turbo's...these little petrol jobs use a high state of tune and turbo to give a decent performance......i agree about the 4K miles a year.....steve might be better to go with petrol.....but he mentioned diesel also........ ken anderson...ne..1..diesel/petrol dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) Petrol or diesel if its short runs frequently it will do either no good, just like leaving them on tick over for 15 minutes to defrost in the winter. Start up, drive with a light and varied load until fully warm. Then the mechanics will outlast the bodywork ? PS - Find a nice friendly AA or RAC chap, its very enlightening what you can find out right down to the make, model, year and sometime month of manufacture which cars have what faults. Had a company car that broke down, AA turned up, check the fault and spent the next 15 minutes consulting the database....went straight to 1 of the 3 earth leads for the battery, bingo the connection was loose! Nipped up and away I went. Edited July 2, 2021 by Chris Walby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Modern diesels need to be run at moderately high speed on a regular basis to burn off the soot in the dpf otherwise it will need to actively regenerate by injecting fuel in the exhaust cycle to start what is basically a fire in the exhaust system. My wife has a diesel zafira and I keep telling her she's driving it too slowly in too high a gear but she won't listen so it does an active regeneration regularly which wont do it any good. If you keep turning the engine off while it's regenerating it gets to the point where you have to take it to a garage for a forced regeneration which won't be cheap. If that fails its a new dpf or a chemical clean of the old one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 https://www.vehicle-recall.co.uk/make/CITROEN/BERLINGO If you know the vin number you can check if it is subject to a recall and for what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.40156194.1212919670.1625236766-1428330391.1598933631 If you know the registration number you can check both its mot history and whether there are any outstanding recalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) The little 3 cyl engines used in many cars deliver very high power for their size. They are highly loaded engines IMO and will fail suddenly. Its not a question if if but when the failure happens. Wait for the right car . If you want a diesel get a diesel. I rate diesel power as its got loads of torque and they are generally economical and far nicer to drive than a buzzy small petrol. I drive a 2.2 auto diesel get mid thirties around town and 45 pluson runs with loads of power.A big petrol engine is great but not eco friendly or economical in the real world . A diesel if driven properly won't clog the DPF . A decent additives like Millers EcoMax will help greatly . As for pollution a petrol engine pollutes far more than a new generation Euro 6 diesel engine despite all the hype from tree huggers etc. The particulates that were a concern are a thing of the past with modern DPF . Better still check if they make a Berlingo with AdBlue system . Very clean I use. Good luck and drive whatever makes you smile?. Edited July 2, 2021 by Engine Doctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Calcutt Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 For that low mileage an electric car is the only choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Colman Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 7 hours ago, Andrew Calcutt said: For that low mileage an electric car is the only choice. Sorry Andrew, but not on my budget it isn't! Besides, I also occasionally travel several hundred Kilometres and an electric car just wouldn't be practical for that given: I live in a 4th floor flat, and there are only 2 public charging points available within a radius of 15 kilometres. The vehicle will be used to transport myself and models and will occasionally be used as an overnight camper. Hence my choice of the Berlingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Colman Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 Thanks once again to all who have commented. Given my budget I am somewhat limited in my choice of vehicle. Whether diesel or petrol may be a case of what turns up but so far I've only driven a diesel version; the only thing stopping me from buying that particular car was a lack of service history. Soon, I will try the petrol version so I will be in a position to compare the two and make a decision. As things stand, given the nature of the vehicle and what I want it for, I would prefer the more laid back torquey power of a diesel over a small high revving petrol. However, finding a good example in good condition, with service history, within my budget, living where I do is much difficult than I thought it would be. Thanks again everyone. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 12 hours ago, Engine Doctor said: The little 3 cyl engines used in many cars deliver very high power for their size. They are highly loaded engines IMO and will fail suddenly. Its not a question if if but when the failure happens. . If they are designed for this application why would they be highly loaded. The added complexity may cause more failure points, but if designed for the duty they wouldn't be any more highly loaded than a larger engine of a similar power output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Taylor Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Steve Colman said: Thanks once again to all who have commented. Given my budget I am somewhat limited in my choice of vehicle. Whether diesel or petrol may be a case of what turns up but so far I've only driven a diesel version; the only thing stopping me from buying that particular car was a lack of service history. Soon, I will try the petrol version so I will be in a position to compare the two and make a decision. As things stand, given the nature of the vehicle and what I want it for, I would prefer the more laid back torquey power of a diesel over a small high revving petrol. However, finding a good example in good condition, with service history, within my budget, living where I do is much difficult than I thought it would be. Thanks again everyone. Steve. Definitely try the petrol, in my experience (of an Alfa Romeo 2 cyl 0.8 litre turbo and a Renault 1.0 Litre turbo 3 cyl, they are tuned to give good torque from low revs, the Alfa in particular driving very much like a diesel. Kim p.s. Wrt electric, it amazes me that nobody in the public eye will discuss the 'elephant in the room' i.e. affordability. And don't get me started on 'zero emissions'. Obviously charged using fairy dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said: If they are designed for this application why would they be highly loaded. The added complexity may cause more failure points, but if designed for the duty they wouldn't be any more highly loaded than a larger engine of a similar power output. Simple really , try getting a quart out if a pint pot. Formula 1 cars have only 2 liter engines that give incredible power and are designed far more rigorously than our road going engines but they are rebuilt after one or two races as developing all that power takes a toll on the materials used in construction. You have to have a compromise for power and reliability with longevity . Expecting a little one liter engine to give two liter performance is not in my world a recipe for a long lasting engine. Edited July 3, 2021 by Engine Doctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Colman Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Kim Taylor said: Wrt electric, it amazes me that nobody in the public eye will discuss the 'elephant in the room' i.e. affordability. And don't get me started on 'zero emissions'. Obviously charged using fairy dust. I'm with you on this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Blokes doing 4000 miles a year, unless he’s a teenager the motor will outlast him. Petrol or diesel. Last time I had an engine problem was 30 plus years ago, and that was an ancient Triumph GT6 I was trashing in my second childhood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Engine Doctor said: Simple really , try getting a quart out if a pint pot. Formula 1 cars have only 2 liter engines that give incredible power and are designed far more rigorously than our road going engines but they are rebuilt after one or two races as developing all that power takes a toll on the materials used in construction. You have to have a compromise for power and reliability with longevity . Expecting a little one liter engine to give two liter performance is not in my world a recipe for a long lasting engine. Not a fair comparison, the F1 engines are also built to be very light so reduce the weight of every component to the minimum. I did a search on Ford 1.0 L ecoboost engines, looks like any problems are due to a cooling hose failing and also due to the direct injection stopping the inlet valves being cleaned. Most sudden engine failures you come across these days are due to timing belt/chain failures, you rarely here of an engine failing because a conrod lets go. BTW the Ford Ecoboost 1.0L is available with upto 140 BHP, the Jaguar 2.0 L is available with upto 296 bhp, a F1 engine is around 750 BHP from it's 2 liters, so when the Ecoboost 1.0 liters are turning out 350 bhp maybe that will be relevant. All they are doing with the smaller engines is using the turbo to fill them with more air (using waste energy from the exhaust), as long as all the components have been designed for the loads/duty there is no reason why they are not long lasting. But if you go on the Ford forums they do warn of clutch problems on cars over 100,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Thought F1 used 1.6 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 And I thought they were "sealed" engine, not allowed to touch them apart from servicing, new plugs etc. between races ? Citroen was a good brand, these days they seem to be problematic, dealers don't want to know them if over 10 years old and won't carry parts for them. Barge pole springs to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Rich, I have no axe in this argument, don’t own, and have ever owned one. But dealers not carrying parts after 10 years? Any evidence. And I thought Citroen was pretty mainstream in the reliability stakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) The parts guy at the local ( 40 miles away ) Citroen dealer told me. He could get some stuff but other stuff is just not held even in the main distribution centre, and parts were unavailable. Picasso 1.8 dohc petrol, exhaust cam shaft drive belt pulley, which has a dynamic balancer pressed on, the bonding had given up and the weigh involved was free to do as it pleased. Dayco unit, dayco said not fitted, I quoted thier part numbers. Eventually got a new one off eBay from Hungary I think it was. Even the pukka oe wiring diagrams bear no resemblance to the vehicle... Same for VDO tpps ( throttle pedal position sensor ) for the picasso, VDO says not fitted or even supplied ! That part does not exist !!? Citroen UK are useless. Every picasso owner I have talked to says never again. Daughter in law had a newish one, nothing but trouble. Barge pole comes to mind. Edited July 3, 2021 by Rich Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Funny things cars. We had a Picasso for 13 yrs and the only thing that went wrong was a rear door lock! Best family car ever in our experience! ? If you want to know what’s reliable just look at what the local taxi drivers are running. Which in our part of the world appears to be Toyota… idd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Steve, just get your van now, while you can enjoy it. We have no clue what is around the next corner, so enjoy it today, now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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