Glow Plug indicator.

[Nigel R]

14 hours ago, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said:

Must admit I was tempted to fit one to the model itself, powered by the flight pack, but I'm sure that either you or Peter would have told me that's a bridge too far, probably rightly

 

Nope, that also seems like an admirable and cost effective solution.

 

Myself, I'd be fitting a second small battery for the retracts anyway, so drive it from that pack. I'd avoid putting any non-critical clobber on to the RX pack.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys

Nigel

Now that surprises me. Thought you were a founder member of the 'keep it simple' brigade. Anyway, definitely going to try one, but not yet.

As I go through the model I keep seeing things I would like to change. Not necessarily better but more my way.

If I stopped to do those all I would probably not get the model flight ready until winter stopped play.

Not that you'd notice. Just looked out the window on grey skies, gale force winds and ,yes, it's started raining. Ho hum.

Meanwhile, back to the plot.

Lurking around the internet and came across this. Not going to buy one, got the BG unit coming for about 1/3 the cost, but the text does explain the wiring better than those BG diagrams.

So, don't want this dangling from the glow energiser, but I had in mind to put a small plug and socket into the power line. If I then wanted to check the plug I could insert the meter in the line. Not sure how accurate that BG one is. If it proves to be good, perhaps I could use it to check plug wet/dry as Peter suggests.

Either way, available when I need it but not getting in the way when I don't.

Sounds like the ideal solution.

Jeff

[David P Williams]

All my medium to large models have the Hobbyking units on board, powered from a separate very small 800mAh 2s LiPo. All have been totally reliable and work just as advertised. A starter with attached LiPo and I have fuss free engine starting - no glow sticks that are hard to attach and fall off and no trailing wires.

Just have to remember to detach the LiPo after a session as there seems to be a very small current drain from the unit that killed a LiPo left attached (although it was for several weeks if not a month or three)

[Engine Doctor]

On 29/07/2021 at 21:26, Ron Gray said:

Glow sticks do not fall off inverted motors as they grip the plug! A couple of years ago a flying buddy flew for 8 minutes, landed then realised he’d forgotten to remove the glow stick!

? have to agree. I flew my kyosho Majestic and left a glow stick on ! I thought it had gone seriously out of trim so dialed in more up elevator flew a circuit and called landing. As it approached the glow stick was clearly visible ! Duh . Stick removed turned around and took off again.

That was a JP short glow stick with a sub C cell. No longer available I believe ?

Hi Jeff I was not suggesting a power panel. I was suggesting a MFA glow starter box. It is simply a small box with an ammeter fitted in series with a cell fitted inside. They work on the "Kiss" principle.

They used to contain a 2v lead acid and had a voltage dropping balast lead for the glow clip before nicads became the norm . I stripped out the lead cell and replaced with a "D"  low self discharge Nimh cell so no need for ballast lead and they will keep their charge for well over a year. Glow lead simply plugs into two banana sockets , these are also used to charge the battery. Meter is good enough to detect flooded plug etc.  You could make one up cheaply and simply. Plenty of analogue meters on ebay or rob one from an old power panel which as said can be unreliable. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Engine Doctor

[Peter Jenkins]

Jeff

 

I use a glow stick to start the inverted ST90 in my Gangster 75.  It's a bit of fiddle fitting it on but it stays put and is easy to remove and if you approach it from the rear you will avoid putting bits of yourself in the prop!  I also have a remote glow driver and that is easy peasy to fit the glow stick to.  The JP glow stick is a great idea and I might get one and transfer the battery in one of my 3 glow sticks to it.  Mind you. it might be difficult to read the meter with the glow stick on an inverted engine and close to the ground.  I have a power panel in my field box so that's my other route to checking the plug is working.

[Peter Jenkins]

Cassandra

 

Thanks for the link.  Just bought a JP glow stick.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi all

Peter

We might have agree to disagree on this one. All I know is the glow clip I borrowed for the first starts was very wobbly even with the engine upright.

Having said that, my remote set up also serves to keep my dainty pinkies well away from any whizzy bits. Worth than on its own.

I do have that digital ammeter coming from BG. When it arrives I'll give it a good check over, but I think I can make it quick disconnect, so I only have to use it where I think the plug might have blown. Other times it stays in my flight box.

Also I have re-jigged my plug connection so its easy enough to take off. Means pulling the plug to check for glow is very much in the mix too.

Remains to be seen how easy it is with the cowl in place, but I do then have a back up.

Jeff

[Martin McIntosh]

God, some of you guys do make it complicated to light up a simple glow plug and know that it is drawing the right amount of current. The idea of a connection to a remote glow from a glow stick with a meter sounds the simplest so far, but pm me for a very easy to make up solution which will work from any power source you like. I have put this on the forum elsewhere in the past. You only need one component and a meter pinched from an old battery charger.

[Chris Walby]

On 24/07/2021 at 12:56, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said:

Hi Guys

Going back to glow after many years electric only. Made up a plug igniter from a single NiMh cell and a plug. Working fine except it will not tell me if the plug is blown.

What I need is something simple to put in the circuit to indicate go/no go on current flowing. Working on the 'keep it simple' principle so don't really want a meter.

Any ideas?

Jeff

 

Two pages of good suggestions to a question that can't be answered, if you want it simple then you can't add anything else than a battery and a glow plug clip its as simple as that. If you what to see what current is flowing then add a current meter or use any other the other suggestions but that just adds complexity.

 

For over 95% of the time a 1800MAH MICRO GLOW START for £8.99 works for me, if the engine starts then take it off or if after a couple goes nothing then check the glow stick against a know good glow plug (one screwed in to a plug spanner), if it glows then sort the fuel issues out if not make note to self to charge glow stick and use spare.

 

Sorry but I just don't get the messing around with engine when I could be flying. The engine should start, warm up, tune and fly in 5 minutes, if it doesn't then there is something wrong - that needs fixing and that at point its time to get the diagnostic tools out.

 

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

That RCATS driver looks a neat bit of kit but I don't see any real advantage over my home brewed "Banggood" system which cost me less than a tenner and a bit of time. Does the soft start add any real benefit?

 

My motivation for moving away from the simple glowsticks is frustration over finding them flat - for some reason, the NiMHs used seem to have a short service life - perhaps I've been unlucky but I have been through too many.  The electronics used in commercial power panel drivers have failed in far too many cases at my club for me to risk them - on average they seem to cost 3 plugs before realisation dawns...

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Charge yer glow stick, stick it on fire up fly, it don't start, plugs gone, replace.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Great if it works like that (and I was a firm convert) but I found that too many times I'd find the recently charged stick had gone flat so my LiPo based solution gives far less hassle with immediate indication of a flooded plug or bad connection. Plus, if the battery should go too low, I can use any of my smaller LiPo packs to give me a start.

[wingcoax]

I was flying over 30 years ago and made my own panel and fitted a small ammeter. This always showed what current the plug was drawing. Yes i did use a 2v nicad, or a dropper circuit from the main 12v battery.

[Denis Watkins]

For the leccy guys reading the post, dead plugs are not a huge issue. Plugs are double the price that they were, so we don't like throwing them away needlessly.

But

Season after season, a time will come when the motor is not running and transitioning quite as crisply, and if you check the plug

The element should be bright like a chrome car bumper, you may find it has become a dull grey.

Change the plug, and enjoy your flying, and should happen about once a season, changing before it goes out.

That is for each motor, so worthwhile to enjoy your flying

[Ron Gray]

The RCATS ‘drivers’ are really excellent (I’ve got 2!) and, in my case, only need recharging once or twice per year. As a ‘party trick’ they show the driver lighting a plug which is totally submerged in water to show how they auto adjust for wet plugs.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Like this, Ron?

 

[Ron Gray]

Yeah, it does that automatically.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Ron

Gives new meaning to the words 'wet plug'. If I ever build a glow powered submarine, I'll keep that in mind.

The way the weather's been lately, may not be too far away!

Jeff

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

11 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Yeah, it does that automatically.

As does mine as it strives to maintain the constant voltage preset, 

 

Yours are lovely bits of kit but extremely expensive for what they appear to offer. Mind you, as a dodgy glow driver can spoil a good day, perhaps peace of mind is worth paying the extra for if you don't want to go down the home brew route.

[Ron Gray]

The first one I bought directly from the USA and, yes, they are expensive but always perform perfectly, take up little space and as I said above require very infrequent charging. the second one I bought second hand. I should say that they also provide enough power to light both plugs on my Laser V twins! Not comparing them to, or saying they are better than home brewed kit, just giving an honest opinion of what they do.

[Martin McIntosh]

I am about to offer Jeff a very simple and foolproof circuit for a glow driver. If he likes it I shall put it on the forum (again).

[Nigel R]

19 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

My motivation for moving away from the simple glowsticks is frustration over finding them flat - for some reason, the NiMHs used seem to have a short service life - perhaps I've been unlucky but I have been through too many

 

I use AA size sticks, you can get them for about fiver, the lid unscrews and you fit your own cell.

 

[Chris Walby]

9 hours ago, Martin McIntosh said:

I am about to offer Jeff a very simple and foolproof circuit for a glow driver. If he likes it I shall put it on the forum (again).

Martin, Please share as I am at a loss as to how much more simple a battery, current meter and a glow clip could be. ?

[Nigel R]

Agreed, the DC/DC buck converter won't need the heatsinking of a linear reg. And it is pre-rolled and only needs a couple of leads/connectors to be soldered on.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys
Have to say at the outset I am quite happy with my home brew NiMh driver, so all the other alternatives on here, while interesting, are very much on the back burner for me.
Having said that, in the interests of science, been doing a little research and the results could be useful.
So, assuming that this circuit is the one Martin mentioned, started with a LM388K regulator.
Nothing much on e-bay, apart from a warning about fake ones. Normal google search turned up genuine ones from the likes of RS and Farnell, but costing north of £70.
Also found LM338K, which looks much the same. More of this type on e-bay, but still around £12, apart from ones from China, at £2.50 for two. Spot the fake anyone?
Did find they do a plastic TO220 case one, much cheaper. Found a legitimate UK supplier doing them for £2.82+post, here.These are linear regulators, so I'm guessing the plastic ones will need some sort of heatsink, size depending on input voltage. Shouldn't be too hard to arrange.
Following a link from Martin Harris, I ordered a voltage dropper module from Bangood. Pressed the 'buy' button to early, never thought to check if they were available over here.
Well, they are, here.
Pretty much the same price as BG, but free shipping. Not a big issue, but could have avoided the long wait for the slow boat from China.
All proceedings held up at the moment, waiting for bits, so could have been a better deal.
That's what I found so far, hope it helps someone.
Jeff