Keil Kraft Falcon 96" Build from Plans

[Skippers Walker]

It's so good to hear about modellers still prepared to build from plans. In these days of 'instant foamies' that require so little construction, to see models slowly rising from a building board after many hours of fettling is so rewarding and satisfying. David's Big Guff looks a treat. I've attached a picture of my trusty J60e

[Skippers Walker]

I've just been looking at Steve Dunne's Falcon maiden flight pictures, very impressive. A cheeky question; how does Ben Buckle's plan advocate attaching the tail unit as I cannot see any rubber bands in the photos?  My very old Albert Hatful drawings just show a conventional dowel and band arrangement!

SW

[Steve Dunne]

Hi Skippers,

Yes, the BBuckle plan shows dowel and bands.

In t'olden days there wasn't enough room in most vehicles for such a large tail permanently attached, and there was also the "knocked off rather than broken" effect for less than perfect landings (originally a free flight design, remember, then modified for single channel...)

I ignored the dowel, lengthened the fin to go down through the stabiliser and fuz, glued the stab to the fuz top and the base of the fin to the fuz bottom.

Oh - and fitted two servos in the back of the fuz...

 

Steve.

[Basil]

On 23/11/2022 at 21:58, Chris Bates said:

Keep the build going just a dream to fly. Lovely build. Have three servos within the fin and tail plane.

 

Chris , what motor/lipo combo are you using. Bas

 

[Basil]

I managed to acquire a BB Falcon kit.Its got buried in the loft so cant get to it easily for reference. What is the general feeling  over the use of servos in the rear. I take it that it is because of the detatchable tail asy !!!! I also note the concern over wieght difs between fuel/ electric. As a newbie-ish  I thought that fuel setup was heavier than electric.Is Goerges reccomendation of a 5055-500 a little on the large size? I have only used dope, then not much in my youth, is it essential for this model or can you use modern film ?.

Bas

[Skippers Walker]

Thanks for the update Steve all very helpful. I have toyed with the idea of bolting the tail feathers to an 1/8" supporting ply plate with inserted blind nuts. The fin, rather like yours, I would joint and glue into the stabiliser. I'm not too keen on the original band attachment for the tail. I am however electing to use bands and dowels for the wings, not only for simplicity but to preserve a little authenticity......back to the old days! I built and flew a good many free flight power models and gliders in the 50's and 60's but could then never afford the basic and expensive single channel r/c of that time. The Falcon is probably my last really large model project as with 80 just around the corner I think I should try and spend a bit more time flying than building!  The jury is out regarding servos in the tail but I'm going to finish the wings and then assemble the whole model uncovered and see where the CG appears to arrive at. I certainly do not want to have to be bolting significant amounts of ballast into what will be a heavy model. I have attached a few pictures for Basil showing the chosen power and motivation set up.

I thought that your Falcon looked really splendid in the air. I'm no too sure that I will be patient or skilful enough to emulate your super colour scheme!

Best wishes SW (Chris)

[Skippers Walker]

Basil here's some photos that might help? I shopped around for the assembly shown and looked at lots of build pictures on the "RC Groups" website (USA). 'Aliexpress' is also worth a visit for LIPOs etc as despite the long delivery wait from the far East the prices can be very competitive

[Skippers Walker]

That's "Aliexpress' the website!Bit of a muddle on my last post!

[Chris Bates]

4 hours ago, Basil said:

Chris , what motor/lipo combo are you using. Bas

 

Hi Bas 

2 x 8000 6cell or 2 x 12000 6cell parallel. SK3 - 6364-190KV.

ATB

Chris

Edited November 26, 2022 by Chris Bates

[Basil]

Thanks Chris and Skippers.

bas

[Skippers Walker]

Just to add some more information about the Falcon's power set up I have quoted the current recommendations from the 4Max site; These are stated for use with the Belair kit of the KK Falcon 96"  Good Luck

PO-5055-500 Brushless Motor	£61.00
4M-ESC60A40 60A Brushless ESC ESC Setup Instructions  and Programming Card	£54.45
HW-UBEC5A	£14.99
JXF 15x7 Wooden high performance prop	£10.11
2X 4M-556AMG-087	£25.18
60C, 4S, 3300mAh 11.1V LiPo Battery	£49.00

 

[Don Fry]

Skipper, battery needed, 4s and 11.1volts don’t compute.

[PatMc]

The price is correct for a 4s 3300mAH battery.

 

P.S. there's no need to buy a BEC with the listed ESC as it has a switching BEC built in. For a simple RET model like the Falcon I don't see the need for a prog card either unless it's intended to get more of the same make of ESC for other models requiring anything other than simple prog changes. 

IMO the ESC is a bit pricy for what it is.

Edited November 26, 2022 by PatMc

[Skippers Walker]

As I said I 'quoted' from George Worley's website. The information shown was simply 'cut n' pasted' into the post. I guess that there may be a 'typo' on the 4Max web site. Perhaps a visit to the 4Max site may confirm this? My 4S is definitely 14.8V as you would expect for this size of battery...see picture.

best wishes

SW

[Skippers Walker]

1 hour ago, Don Fry said:

Skipper, battery needed, 4s and 11.1volts don’t compute.

I agree!

[Skippers Walker]

1 hour ago, PatMc said:

The price is correct for a 4s 3300mAH battery.

 

P.S. there's no need to buy a BEC with the listed ESC as it has a switching BEC built in. For a simple RET model like the Falcon I don't see the need for a prog card either unless it's intended to get more of the same make of ESC for other models requiring anything other than simple prog changes. 

IMO the ESC is a bit pricy for what it is.

I agree!

[Skippers Walker]

Here we are Basil I suggest you thumb through the pots on this site; https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/thumbgallery.php?t=252888&do=threadgallery&type=img&group=none&starter=no

 

Lots of interesting stuff by other experienced Falcon Builders....mostly in the USA

Best of Luck SW

[Basil]

Hi Folks, just dug the kit from the loft. Checked thru' the parts. I was looking on the plan for the tail mounted servos etc. The plans are labeled '1985  Ben Buckle kit ' .No servos are shown in the 'band' mounted tail asy.

Any comments from those of you that have built this kit!!!!.I should point out that I am not a well seasoned builder but have some under my belt. I like a challenge, so just to learn built a Lil cub with slats. flaps , just to expand the building experience . Waitng to fly it, looks like a long wait for that kind of weather. Back to the Falcon, always eager to listen.The galley from Skippers highlighted build pics are very interesting.

Bas

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Basil

[Steve Dunne]

Hi Basil. Tail mounted servos are not shown on the plan - we have to work it out for ourselves. You can just see mine on some of the photographs on my falcon thread.

The two servos are attached to plates on either side of the fuselage, opposite each other.

 

[Basil]

Steve, that was just a comment as I had seen comments made re the tail mounted servos and the discussions after. I expected the plan to show them there. I would have mounted them in the fuse' as a matter of course. I am building an electric version. I already have a Ben Buckle 'Good news', only suitable for up to  low wind speeds.

Bas

[Don Fry]

My view, I hate added weight on any airframe. I will weigh, and guess, and get paranoid, to get it done without added weight, either as lead or heavy wood. 
I will build one of these. It’s on the list.  My plan is to put a rail all the length of the wing bay, so the receiver/tail servo tray can be slid to any position as needed after covering. Closed loop to the tail. I will install a long tube, allowing flight battery to be moved, after completion. Also note the CG always seems to need shifting to the rear after initial flight trim. Also note, a small bit of lead in the tail, will count balance a heavy nose. A big piece of lead is needed to counterbalance a heavy tail.

[Skippers Walker]

4 hours ago, Basil said:

Hi Folks, just dug the kit from the loft. Checked thru' the parts. I was looking on the plan for the tail mounted servos etc. The plans are labeled '1985  Ben Buckle kit ' .No servos are shown in the 'band' mounted tail asy.

Any comments from those of you that have built this kit!!!!.I should point out that I am not a well seasoned builder but have some under my belt. I like a challenge, so just to learn built a Lil cub with slats. flaps , just to expand the building experience . Waitng to fly it, looks like a long wait for that kind of weather. Back to the Falcon, always eager to listen.The galley from Skippers highlighted build pics are very interesting.

Bas

 

 

[Skippers Walker]

Hi Bas There's certainly a lot of discussion being generated about this build project. I agree with Steve's last post, especially with models of this type and age. You just have to construct with an inventive approach and be prepared to use 'trial and error' sometimes and see what works best. Returning to the idea of mounting servos in the tail end it really is a case of approach this method with care. It will all depend where the initial CG position is found to be, once the model reaches a stage when the power unit and associated R/C gear can be put in. With modern lightweight servos in may be possible to leave the decision where to put them after the previous stage mentioned has been reached? Trial and error. Steve has obviously managed a successful tail end mounting of his servos but he does have an i/c power unit and associated fuel tank in the nose as opposed to an electric set up. 

You may already have searched the site below but there are several more showing tail mounted servo and other interesting approaches to building this particular model.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1706473-Britkit-build-off-2012-K-K-Falcon

 

Keep chipping away SW (Chris)

[Skippers Walker]

9 hours ago, Basil said:

Steve, that was just a comment as I had seen comments made re the tail mounted servos and the discussions after. I expected the plan to show them there. I would have mounted them in the fuse' as a matter of course. I am building an electric version. I already have a Ben Buckle 'Good news', only suitable for up to  low wind speeds.

Bas

 

5 hours ago, Skippers Walker said:

Hi Bas There's certainly a lot of discussion being generated about this build project. I agree with Steve's last post, especially with models of this type and age. You just have to construct with an inventive approach and be prepared to use 'trial and error' sometimes and see what works best. Returning to the idea of mounting servos in the tail end it really is a case of approach this method with care. It will all depend where the initial CG position is found to be, once the model reaches a stage when the power unit and associated R/C gear can be put in. With modern lightweight servos in may be possible to leave the decision where to put them after the previous stage mentioned has been reached? Trial and error. Steve has obviously managed a successful tail end mounting of his servos but he does have an i/c power unit and associated fuel tank in the nose as opposed to an electric set up. 

You may already have searched the site below but there are several more showing tail mounted servo and other interesting approaches to building this particular model.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1706473-Britkit-build-off-2012-K-K-Falcon

 

Keep chipping away SW (Chris)

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPqZONtPz08xyodARZ8p9XPc8HHDY9Y1jq2s49pT6QM-wKfOM1A3ahDSO8_Wfnkaw?key=TGI0UDR2cmR3elFRdVE5TWQtWnQxeTBWS2N0ejdB    One more set of pictures and a flying sequence of the Falcon