Don Fry Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 I’m sorting out a self contained electric winch for my boat. I’ve acquired 4x 25 Amp hour LiFe cells to provide to power it. Now I could just charge it with one of my regular chargers, plugged into a 12 v source , but using them requires knowledge. I’ve got a little charger that charges through the balance ports, but it’s LiPo only. Plug it it, it charges each cell to full and then cuts out. Simple. Is there a version out there that does this for LiFe cells. 12 volt input voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Howard Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 I'm sure my chargers do it - Etronix Powerpal Touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 Thanks Mitchell, not what I’m looking for, I’ve got chargers like yours. And if I’m not present, I can’t in fairness expect a non user to work out how to use it in safety. What I want is a simple device that you plug in the balance leads only, and it charges each cell independently, through the leads. So the only knowledge the operator needs is plug the charger into the car. I have got one 12 v input, perfect, but it’s LiPo only, and my cells are LiFe chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Howard Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 A clubmate raves about his Spektrum smart chargers. Says he just connects them and it "knows what to do". A brief Google shows they support LiFe, but you'd have to check how it operates as to whether it's simple enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 Thanks Michael. But I believe, to get the Spectrum smart charger to work on auto, it reads a microchip in the battery. My cells are dumb batteries. I dare say it can be manually programmed, but that leaves us open to a non user, dabbing away trying to charge my LiFe cells as HV LiPo, at big amps, ending in tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Don Fry said: I’m sorting out a self contained electric winch for my boat. I’ve acquired 4x 25 Amp hour LiFe cells to provide to power it. Now I could just charge it with one of my regular chargers, plugged into a 12 v source , but using them requires knowledge. I’ve got a little charger that charges through the balance ports, but it’s LiPo only. Plug it it, it charges each cell to full and then cuts out. Simple. Is there a version out there that does this for LiFe cells. 12 volt input voltage. Charging a 25 amp hour battery through the balance lead is going to take an age - it will depend on the guage of the wire, but personally I wouldn't expect to be able to put any more than 1A through them. The only charger I had that worked this way was for an early co-ax heli powered by an 85mah lipo, and that took an hour to charge fully. Edited September 1, 2021 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 When you say 4 x 25 amp hour, do you mean a single 4s battery? If that's the case I think you'll struggle to find one that charges through the balance lead, the only ones I know of are 2/3S like this mains powered unit and even then it only charges at 800 mah, so to charge a 25 amp hour battery assuming it was at 30% charge would take around 22 hours. I'm afraid you'll probably have to go to the programmable type to get one to do what you want, but some of these are very easy to use now and have a simple menu structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Clark Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 Hi, I think that this will do what you want: https://www.4-max.co.uk/gt-pd606-charger.html You will need to program it in the first place for battery type and charge current, but once done then it will remember so all you have to do is plug the balance leads in to start the charge. Please note, that I have not actually used on of these, but I do have a HK knock off (no longer available) that works in this way. I cannot be absolutely certain that it will work, but it certainly looks like it will Good luck Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 I think you need to look outside this hobby, maybe have a look/word with Victron energy who specialise in what you are trying to do, maybe solar charging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 Thanks for the pointer, I think I have been a poor communicator, and have not made my needs clear. I am assembling a 25 Amp hour, 4s 1p Life battery to power a winch, for a boat weighing about 1500 kilos. I am over engineering everything using a slow winch, big battery. The boat will recover onto its trailer in about 2.5 minutes, and I guess take an average load of 200 watts. I have enough spare battery capacity that in practice I will operate it from storage voltage. If I want it full, I get one of my 500 watt chargers out, set up a program, and bang some power in, using the power lead, and balance port. And most of its time it will earn a living as a field power source for field charging the small batteries that work my aircraft. But, I lend the boat to trusted friends. They can work boats. They are not aeromodellers, but can work basic chargers like the stuff Halfords sell for a couple of quid to trickle charge a car battery. The photo above is a little unit I own, plug the balance lead in, plug into the car, it feeds 1500 mAh into each cell, and shuts down. No other knowledge needed. I want one that charges LiFe cells. They used to exist, HobbyKing used to do one, switchable between LiPo and life, but no more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Philip Lewis 3 said: I think you need to look outside this hobby, maybe have a look/word with Victron energy who specialise in what you are trying to do, maybe solar charging? You may be right, I’m wondering what the paintball people use for a power source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Or maybe chargers for electric bikes, scooters or power tools which use these cells? EG something like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Bradly Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) Similar to what John Lee posted https://www.power-sonic.com/chargers/life-series/ You don't need to charge via balance lead for the occasional lend to a friend. You could do that yourself now and again with a model charger, the rest of the year use a simple device as suggested to keep things going. The battery won't fail immediately because it didn't get a balance charge every single time it was charged. Alternatively, why not buy a premade 25Ah batt, that has onboard BMS? https://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Universal-Phosphate-Replacement-Protection/dp/B081KW6QLV Edited September 2, 2021 by Dale Bradly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Dale Bradly said: Similar to what John Lee posted https://www.power-sonic.com/chargers/life-series/ You don't need to charge via balance lead for the occasional lend to a friend. You could do that yourself now and again with a model charger, the rest of the year use a simple device as suggested to keep things going. The battery won't fail immediately because it didn't get a balance charge every single time it was charged. Alternatively, why not buy a premade 25Ah batt, that has onboard BMS? https://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Universal-Phosphate-Replacement-Protection/dp/B081KW6QLV +1, I fully agree. Charging via the balance lead is unnecessary because for the very occasional charge that your friends will need to do it doesn't need to be a balance charge; the cells will be balanced all the other times when you use your RC charger. A single output charger as posted makes a lot more sense, and will charge the pack up far quicker too which could be invaluable (a balance lead based solution will take ~24hrs to charge, not much use if you are recovering the boat that day when you realise the pack is nearly exhausted!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) PS... 6 hours ago, Don Fry said: I am assembling a 25 Amp hour, 4s 1p Life battery to power a winch, for a boat weighing about 1500 kilos. I am over engineering everything using a slow winch, big battery. The boat will recover onto its trailer in about 2.5 minutes, and I guess take an average load of 200 watts. Based on those figures and allowing for some real world losses, you could conservatively run the winch for say 75 mins on a full charge, or ~30 recoveries of the boat. At half charge (which I would imagine is the minimum the pack is ever likely to have in it at the point you loan out the boat) it could do say 14 or 15 recoveries. Based on that and the low self discharge characteristics of LiFe, is there a need to provide your friends with a charging solution at all? I can't imagine they would ever need to recover the boat to the trailer more than 2 or 3 times in a given holiday; even if low temperatures affected battery performance it's such a big pack it should still function fine 5-10 retrievals. Personally I would just monitor the perfomance of the pack when I charge it, then make sure it is fully charged when I hand it over and tell them not to worry! Edited September 2, 2021 by MattyB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Dale Bradly said: Similar to what John Lee posted https://www.power-sonic.com/chargers/life-series/ You don't need to charge via balance lead for the occasional lend to a friend. You could do that yourself now and again with a model charger, the rest of the year use a simple device as suggested to keep things going. The battery won't fail immediately because it didn't get a balance charge every single time it was charged. Alternatively, why not buy a premade 25Ah batt, that has onboard BMS? https://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Universal-Phosphate-Replacement-Protection/dp/B081KW6QLV As a follow up to Dale's post, I just wanted to add that have been using a couple of these 24Ah LiFe batteries this year for on-field charging and powering other devices, and they have performed really well. https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/tn-power-lithium-12v-24ah-leisure-battery-lifepo4/ They have an inbuilt BMS so I just charge from my normal modelling chargers (LiFe setting) without connecting a balance lead, but you could use a dedicated "12v" LiFe charger (or even keep it topped up from the car 12v 'cigar lighter' socket, with a diode or two to drop the volts a bit). Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 51 minutes ago, MattyB said: PS... Based on those figures and allowing for some real world losses, you could conservatively run the winch for say 75 mins on a full charge, or ~30 recoveries of the boat. At half charge (which I would imagine is the minimum the pack is ever likely to have in it at the point you loan out the boat) it could do say 14 or 15 recoveries. Based on that and the low self discharge characteristics of LiFe, is there a need to provide your friends with a charging solution at all? I can't imagine they would ever need to recover the boat to the trailer more than 2 or 3 times in a given holiday; even if low temperatures affected battery performance it's such a big pack it should still function fine 5-10 retrievals. Personally I would just monitor the perfomance of the pack when I charge it, then make sure it is fully charged when I hand it over and tell them not to worry! I think that’s good advice Matty. KISS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Don Fry said: HobbyKing used to do one, switchable between LiPo and life, but no more I think this is the one you are after, I bought one ages ago and it is still going strong. https://www.banggood.com/fr/Upgraded-DHD-450B-50W-4A-Balance-Charger-For-1-4S-LiPo-LiFe-Battery-p-1259310.html Edited September 2, 2021 by FlyinFlynn add picture 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Don Fry said: You may be right, I’m wondering what the paintball people use for a power source They use airsoft packs mostly these days, https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-1000mah-3s-20-40c-lipo-airsoft-pack-t-connector.html?queryID=7b596b1063ec0bbe29d4e14d790a584b&objectID=47517&indexName=hbk_live_products_analytics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 That’s it. Marty’s advice still stands. But a back up is good. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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