Hobbyking

[Erfolg]

Cuban, I agree with you, I am pretty sure I thought much the same back then.

 

A good few years back, there was a TV series, set about the time of the first railway developments. Apparently the Author of the book, that the TV series was based on, lived or used Knutsford as (her, I think) experiences as the story line. Now to the point, It would seem in that period, shops as we know them and certainly Department Stores, did not exist, as such. Trades people worked at the back of the premises, had a few things in their front window, the more enterprising had a larger front window. They did not sell other peoples products as a general rule. Not quite the corner shops I remember. 

 

Change is inevitable, the high street as I knew it went, its latest iteration is also changing. High street retail is in decline, more and more, goes on line. It also does seem that HK and others will need to come to terms that their business model needs to change, with the VAT situation as high lighted by the new custom border from leaving the EU. The consequential issue of vat charges by carriers, has become a larger issue . You are all probably correct who suggest that HK would benefit as acting as the VAT collectors on behalf of HM Customs. That is if they intend surviving. The days of International warehousing may be over, even within the EU, certainly from a UK perspective. 

[FlyinFlynn]

On 20/10/2021 at 16:26, Erfolg said:

 

 

On that basis how can I tell if an overseas supplier has an arrangement to add the 20% Vat, to forward to the Customs in the UK? As far as I can tell. the sites I tend to look at in the Far East or Europe, do not seem to partake in this scheme?

They will have on their web pages that VaT has been paid or, at least, included in their final bill. - for example -

 

 

 

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Robert Cracknell said:

If I'm not mistaken wasn't HK an anonymous commercial unit on an airfield in rural Suffolk...?

 

HK UK was exactly that, but it is not local UK conditions that are driving this change - it's far more complex than that. Changes in taxation, pandemic supply chain issues and the big fine they face in the US will all have played into this. I'm sure. HK is a global business, and it's global conditions that are causing them to rethink their model.

 

1 hour ago, Erfolg said:

...Change is inevitable, the high street as I knew it went, its latest iteration is also changing. High street retail is in decline, more and more, goes on line. It also does seem that HK and others will need to come to terms that their business model needs to change, with the VAT situation as highlighted by the new custom border from leaving the EU. The consequential issue of vat charges by carriers, has become a larger issue . You are all probably correct who suggest that HK would benefit as acting as the VAT collectors on behalf of HM Customs. That is if they intend surviving. The days of International warehousing may be over, even within the EU, certainly from a UK perspective. 

 

I was not a Brexiteer (far from it!), but to be these changes to VAT collection are not to do with Brexit. Even if we had stayed the changes that put an onus on international suppliers to collect VAT on behalf HMRC at the point of purchase would (and have) been applied EU wide. 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by MattyB

[Erfolg]

Matty

 

Nothing directed at yourself, nor anyone else, I assure you.

 

My views are based on, there has been change, in this case our Vat boundary is now the UK. Also Covid, high local taxes, and a very uncertain future, with a declining customer base (us old uns are on borrowed time).

 

From a business perspective it has some implications, both in the UK and those outside the redefined boundary.

 

As to the UK and the Dutch warehouses, in retrospect, It is not obvious to me why there were two in the EU. From the HK perspective, the change will or should be, is the UK and the Dutch warehouses viable (if they ever were)? We now know at probably no more than 100, 000 modelers in the UK (I am assuming that the Quod bubble has burst to some extent, no longer being sold on every corner (Debnams, Hamlys etc.) to kids) that it was not. I am sure that the same question is being asked about the Niederland operation.

 

Yet, it is possible, as suggested by a contributor that sales from Hong Kong could be viable, if the various worldwide tax requirements can be managed. It could be far to onerous. Hong Kong does seem to have excellent world wide distribution paths available. You never know they could turn up in Singapore, or other business friendly country.

 

Hmmm, could even be the UK via freeports, if and when things settle down here.

 

The demise of the the LMS had more to do, with our limited numbers, in some instances poor sales attitudes, poor stock, topped with high tax. A recipe for disrupters to flourish, that was HK, GC.

[MattyB]

8 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

Matty

 

Nothing directed at yourself, nor anyone else, I assure you.

 

My views are based on, there has been change, in this case our Vat boundary is now the UK. Also Covid, high local taxes, and a very uncertain future, with a declining customer base (us old uns are on borrowed time).

 

NP - I just didn't want people to be under the misunderstanding that this change in VAT collection was only applicable to the UK, when in fact the whole of the EU have done pretty much the same thing.

 

Details of the EU changes (which actually look slightly more onerous than the UK's, at least for now) are here...

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by MattyB
Added screengrab

[Erfolg]

The "one stop" concept is a process that the UK could introduce (maybe it has). 

 

It could be of benefit to HK and its UK customers.

 

In bed last night I did ponder some of the things said (in the TV programme reviewing aspects of a historic drama), that many of the ideas and practices were not absolute in their application. More likely dependant on many aspects of society and practices. For instance, whilst visiting the historic (Roman) Pompey site, there was a shop (excavated) that had a counter, that purported to sell snacks of sea food etc. Whereas the TV show suggested that counters were not a significant feature in the 1900s, evolving as retail moved into multi product outlets. All in all I just take the view that E retailing has and will continue to be a significant part of retailing. This is (IMO) is beneficial to us modelers, widening our choice of products, at affordable prices, delivered often in a more timely manner than high street retailing. It is a pity that our numbers (in the UK)are so low, yet probably are just keeping our hobby alive.

 

 

[kevin b]

4 hours ago, Erfolg said:

The "one stop" concept is a process that the UK could introduce (maybe it has). 

 

It could be of benefit to HK and its UK customers.

 

In bed last night I did ponder some of the things said (in the TV programme reviewing aspects of a historic drama), that many of the ideas and practices were not absolute in their application. More likely dependant on many aspects of society and practices. For instance, whilst visiting the historic (Roman) Pompey site, there was a shop (excavated) that had a counter, that purported to sell snacks of sea food etc. Whereas the TV show suggested that counters were not a significant feature in the 1900s, evolving as retail moved into multi product outlets. All in all I just take the view that E retailing has and will continue to be a significant part of retailing. This is (IMO) is beneficial to us modelers, widening our choice of products, at affordable prices, delivered often in a more timely manner than high street retailing. It is a pity that our numbers (in the UK)are so low, yet probably are just keeping our hobby alive.

 

 

How true, but fortunately there are still a few out there with ventilators at the ready - just in case.    

[Tosh McCaber]

Hmm- It's getting a bit technical for me.  Sorry to be a bit thick about this!  Can anyone answer the following:

 

Since the UK has a "trade deal" with the EU, are items bought in the EU subject to customs duty?  I think not?

 

As well, what is the position re VAT on items originating from the EU?

 

Similarly, on items originating abroad (China), the same questions as above (no trade deal!).

 

When I've recently bought stuff from Banngood, the eventual cost has been the same as they have adverised on my computer.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Tosh

 

Re the EU, everything should be duty free, but when we were in the single market you paid VAT in the country of purchase, now we are outside you pay UK VAT. Overseas companies can register to collect and  pay HMRC UK VAT, if they haven't they should remove their countries VAT and the importer (i.e. you) will be responsible for paying this. The delivery company should collect this, but on a recent purchase direct from Germany I had the German VAT removed and didn't get charged in the UK - result ?

 

It will be the same from other countries outside the EU, unless the goods attract a separate duty, in which case if they are over £135 then you'll pay the duty on top of any VAT.

 

Not shopped on Banggood recently but they are either collecting the UK VAT or you've been lucky, what did the invoice from them say?

 

Edit, just logged into Banggood and all their prices were quoted as including VAT so it looks like they are collecting it.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Frank Skilbeck

[Erfolg]

Frank, the situation does seem better than I had thought, that is if I have got things correct'

 

In the past I was charged both VAT and a handling charge by the post office for a £15 motor from HK China, is this something from the past. Or have I misunderstand?

[Tosh McCaber]

Thanks for that clarification Frank.  Hope that we don't have "handling charges" now, as another new tax!

[Frank Skilbeck]

Erfolg - depends if the supplier has registered to pay UK VAT or not, if they have it's included in the price, if not you pay on arrival plus the processing fee.

[andyh]

1 hour ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

Re the EU, everything should be duty free ...

 

goods that are entirely or mostly of EU origin are duty-exempt, but those that aren't - ie most HK/BG/AE stuff that comes from China originally - are subject to duty on orders >£135.  this duty can be 0-25% depending on the type of goods.

 

couriers may then charge an additional handling fee for collecting the duty & paying it to HMRC:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/online-shopping-do-i-have-to-pay-vat-import-and-handling-costs-ajPOC6A5brEA#import-vat-customs-duty-and-handling-fees-for-orders-over-135

[Peter Miller]

This may be of interest.

 

I needed a couple of small Lipos. None available from any Hobbyking. Even 4Max didn't have them in stock.

 

Amazon have large amounts of them in all sizes.

 

On Thursday I ordered two 1500 3C 120S lipos from Amazon. £28. They came from Amazon EU. I  was told arriving Monday.

 

In fact when I came home from flying on Saturday they were waiting for me.

 

Now that beats even UK Hobbyking for speed and prices where excellent.

 

Other Buy. 25 assorted extension leads from100 to 600mm. for £8.99. 

[Nigel R]

16 hours ago, Tosh McCaber said:

Since the UK has a "trade deal" with the EU

 

The UK has no trade deal with the EU, nada, zilch, squat, nothing.

 

17 hours ago, Tosh McCaber said:

are items bought in the EU subject to customs duty?

 

given the current lack of trade deal, its the same as rest of world, so yes.

 

17 hours ago, Tosh McCaber said:

As well, what is the position re VAT on items originating from the EU?

 

same as rest of world, you pay VAT, either at source if you're lucky, or to RM / PF when they handle the import for you and charge you for the privilege.

 

17 hours ago, Tosh McCaber said:

on items originating abroad (China), the same questions as above (no trade deal!).

 

exactly as per EU, US, Ghana, Russia or practically any other country

 

15 hours ago, Tosh McCaber said:

Hope that we don't have "handling charges" now, as another new tax!

 

Nothing new about handling charges, always been there.

 

[Tosh McCaber]

Ordered a 60a speed controller from Hobbyking EU on Monday 18th October.  Cost was £26.77 plus £1.91 postage.  Arrived today, exactly two weeks later, from Nieuwegein, The Netherlands, with Customs Declaration for goods value €30 .15 "May be opened officially" note on the box, (which was very large considering what was inside!).  It wasn't opened! Not bad timing for delivery, and very reasonable postage cost (cheaper than most hobby shops in the UK.)

On Sunday 17 October, I ordered an all in one package deal from Banggood consisting of A2212 1400KV motor + a 40A ESC + two TowerPro servos + two 8x6 propellers.  All for £16.48 plus about 10p postage!  Again, the package arrived today.  Return address indicated that it arrived from Southall? I'm happy with that!  It seems that we are going to be lucky or unlucky at random from now on!

[andyh]

1 hour ago, Tosh McCaber said:

I'm happy with that!  It seems that we are going to be lucky or unlucky at random from now on!

 

nothing random about it - they both had UK VAT paid at source by the vendor & were under £135 so they weren't liable for duty & handling fees.

[Erfolg]

I am not sure that I completely understand the present situation.

 

My main objective is avoiding paying a handling charge. There is a why, it is because I principally purchase small value items, such a ESC, Rx etc. The handling charge is often higher than the value of the item or items.

On that basis buying anything needs to have had the UK Vat payed at source, with an arrangement to forward that duty to the UK Customs and Revenue at an agreed time.

Something that does not generally affect me is that if over £135, then import duty could be applicable (although I thought toys were generally exempt). Which now doubt will attract Vat in addition as some value has been achieved.

 

Paying UK vat is something that you have to do or just accept as paying for a functioning country

 

Pondering VAT, it has surprised me that it really should be classed as value added and any service, as what value is added, by a form being filled in. Which then had me thinking, when I pay for a meal in a restaurant etc., and I tip for service by the staff, should this be subject to an additional application of Vat/ Just a thought.

[Nigel R]

51 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

if over £135, then import duty could be applicable

 

Duty applicable on everything over £135 - toys are not exempt, 4%, in general.

 

Not sure that's covered by the arrangement as the pre-collection of VAT either. If VAT was pre-paid, I guess you'd still have handling & duty to pay to RM.

[John Lee]

 

 https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty 

 

gives the appropriate rates and arrangements for the bands £39/£135/£650/£650+

[andyh]

4 hours ago, Erfolg said:

Pondering VAT, it has surprised me that it really should be classed as value added and any service, as what value is added, by a form being filled in. Which then had me thinking, when I pay for a meal in a restaurant etc., and I tip for service by the staff, should this be subject to an additional application of Vat/ Just a thought.

 

not everything is subject to VAT - most food not served in restaurants being the obvious one - tipping is also exempt.

 

[Tim C]

I did note that my HK EU Lipo order which arrived today, in the post had the full EU declaration and low a behold a VAT invoice , but showing 0%, so HK are not collecting VAT on UK sales and RM seems to have given up collecting it as well.  Banggood and AliExpress orders are all VAT paid on purchase under £135.

 

no Lipo warning labels on package which is a bit naughty

[Peter Miller]

Interestingly my Amazon order had nothing at all even though the batteries came from the EU

[Geoff S]

I've just bought a Satnav via Amazon, which arrived very quickly (ordered Sat evening, arrived Monday afternoon) and it had a battery warning label on it.  It's called a NavPal and came from a UK based supplier.  Used it today and it worked well - third the price of Garmin/TomTom.

 

 

[Ron Gray]

Well the good news is that ChinaHobbyLine are opening a new UK store, aiming to be in business  for Black Friday.