QX7 Trainer buddy box link

[EarlyBird]

This confirms my thoughts that a Radiomaster cable will not cause a problem for FrSky TXs.

 

But a stereo cable does not work for @Sheepish?

[Max Z]

With regards to the cable: Shaun stated that both Tx's worked fine with the sim dongle, using a mono jack. To me that says that the lead is carrying the ppm stream successfully, as well as the ground connection. A buddy lead with exactly the same mono jack should do so as well, except when there are differences in shape or dimensions. If all that is correct, the problem lies most likely in the Open TX settings.

 

Max.

[Sheepish]

Evening All

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, apologies for not responding sooner I’ve been working all day today.

 

The question about special and global functions is interesting.  I have tried setting the trainer switch in both of these areas together and separately but with no result.  If anyone has any wisdom as to what has worked for them with the trainer switch programming I would be interested to hear please.

 

I await a four section cable to try which is due on Friday I hope.

 

I understood that pretty much any cable should work but that’s not been my experience so far.

The setup sequence that should work from all I’ve read is to make one tx the slave by selecting this option in opentx, turning off all rf transmissions and loading a simple four channel model into the tx model memory.
The second tx, the master tx, is selected in opentx, a model memory built, a trainer switch allocated in special functions, this tx is also bound to the models rx.

 

The two tx’s should be switched on and then connected using a stereo or mono audio lead with 3.5mm connectors.  Flipping the trainer switch should then transfer control between the two tx’s.  
Fine tuning for centre calibration, trims and matching of stick functions can be done in the master tx trainer screen.  

Because both tx’s are running opentx this should be easy and obvious if the online videos are, at least in part, correct.

my next go at this will be once I have the new lead, hopefully on Friday.

 

Thanks again for all your help and contributions.

 

[Denis Watkins]

Nope, to all the above Shaun

 

Read all your post again, as the lads and YouTube has shown you the correct way.

 

Dissimilar transmitter makes of Slave

Power up as you plug in the cable, they are switched off

 

the only reason to power up both, is for WIRELESS buddy

[Mike Blandford]

I've just run a test using my QX7 and RMTX16 and a mono trainer cable. In my case, I'm running erskyTx on both radios, but I believe the general setup is similar to openTx.

I tested with the QX7 as student/slave and the RMTX16 as teacher/master.

I needed to power both radios on.

In the trainer setup on the QX7, I set it to "Slave" so it sends CPPM data along the cable. I checked this was working by looking at the signal (on the mono connector at the other end of the cable) on a 'scope.

I then plugged the cable into the RMTX16, and looked in the trainer setup. I set this to use "Jack PPM". In erskyTx, the first 4 received channel data values are shown on the trainer setup display. At this point, they were all 0.0 and didn't change when I moved the sticks on the QX7.

I then very slowly pulled the plug out of the RMTX16, At a particular position with the plug slightly unplugged, the data did arrive and the sticks did then change the values. Pushing the plug fully back in and the values stopped changing. I've also just found that pulling the plug towards the left and front of the TX16 gets it working.

 

It seems the RMTX16 does not work with my standard mono cable. I have just seen a reference elsewhere to someone needing to bend the contacts of the jack socket (specifically the third one from the top) to get a reliable connection. Possible a different jack plug would be mechanically slightly different and make a good connection.

 

Mike

[EarlyBird]

7 hours ago, Mike Blandford said:

I tested with the QX7 as student/slave and the RMTX16 as teacher/master.

I needed to power both radios on.

This tells me that although the four way socket in the RMTX16 has an Insert Detection contact it's not used in openTx and obviously any openTx Master/Student TX has to be switched on and set up in openTx.

8 hours ago, Mike Blandford said:

I then very slowly pulled the plug out of the RMTX16, At a particular position with the plug slightly unplugged, the data did arrive and the sticks did then change the values. Pushing the plug fully back in and the values stopped changing. I've also just found that pulling the plug towards the left and front of the TX16 gets it working.

 It is the four way jack socket in the RMTX16 not fully compatible with standard mono, and probably stereo, cables. @Capt Kremenhad this issue.

 but did find one cable that did work reliably. One worked intermittently if the jack was wiggled in the Spectrum socket. 

 

I hope that the buddy lead on the way to @Sheepishworks and confirms that standard mono/stereo cables may not be compatible with all TX sockets.

[Sheepish]

Evening All

 

My four section lead arrived this morning and I had a chance to try it quickly earlier.

 

Still nothing doing however I use the lead and however I set up the tx’s switched on or off or whatever and it won’t turn on either tx by inserting the plug either.

 

I must be missing something totally obvious here as it can’t be this difficult to do this.  Programming perhaps?

 

The trainer switch is programmed in “special functions” but there is also a “global functions” possibility too but either or both seems to make no difference to the outcome.

 

One thing I did notice again is that on the teacher/master tx if I look at the monitors for output when I flip the trainer switch it makes no difference to the monitors they still show the sticks moving whereever the trainer switch is.  

Can I ask if anyone who has done this successfully is this what happens on your tx?

 

I would have expected that selecting the student tx from the teacher tx would mean that the monitors on the teacher tx would stop moving… or not?

 

I have seen a video on youtube showing this transfer happening but it doesn’t do it for me.

[Max Z]

 

11 minutes ago, Sheepish said:

I must be missing something totally obvious here as it can’t be this difficult to do this.  Programming perhaps?

Maybe you can show us some screenshots of the relevant trainer settings to see if we can detect something missing?

[EarlyBird]

23 minutes ago, Max Z said:

 

Maybe you can show us some screenshots of the relevant trainer settings to see if we can detect something missing?

That's a good idea. There are more settings than just the trainer switch designation. 

[Sheepish]

I’ll see what I can do over the weekend with some time to do this, thanks.

[Ron Gray]

2 hours ago, Sheepish said:

Can I ask if anyone who has done this successfully is this what happens on your tx?

I cannot speak for a Radiomaster Tx but with my X10 Express when I hold the momentary switch the outputs are only controlled by the Student Tx sticks (I've used a QX7, Jumper XLite and a Taranis Access as Student TXs).

 

Screen shots:

 

X10 Express as Trainer

 

 

 

 

 

Taranis as Student

 

 

[Sheepish]

Thanks for posting that Ron it’s really helpful to see a setup that works.

 

That is how my two tx’s are set up.
 I presume to override is to give a throttle arming protection?

 

I notice you use trainer “sticks” and not “channels” and the switch is programmed in special functions.  
 

As I have said before this should be easy, I’m beginning to think I have something broken somewhere by what I have no idea.

[Mike Blandford]

I suggest trying the following (Use Ron's images above to help with the settings):

Set the QX7 as "Slave/Jack".

Set the TX16S as "Master/Jack".

Connect the radios together using the MONO cable.

On the TX16S find the "Trainer" screen that shows the CAL values (the third one of Ron's). These CAL values are the raw sticks from the Slave, are are always active, regardless of any other trainer settings. As you move the sticks on the QX7, these values should change. If they don't, then the signal is not getting to the TX16S, so try pulling the plug out of the TX16S slightly, and/or wiggling the plug a bit to see if it is just a poor connection and you can then get the values to respond. If you make sure any throttle safety is disabled on the QX7 then changing the throttle position makes it easy to see if fiddling with the plug in the TX16S has any effect, the throttle value will jump to a new position if the signal gets through.

 

Mike

[Ron Gray]

Yes, the SF2 switch is set to override the throttle and is the same for all of my models, I was going to setup a conditional switch but haven’t got round to it yet (and tbh haven’t had an issue with the way it’s currently setup!).

 

SF2 - Trainer Sticks is the option that comes up when setting the SF.

 

So if your systems are setup like these and the cable is plugged into the correct socket, ie not the headphone socket!, then it should work.

[Sheepish]

Hi Mike

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I have never been able to see the cal values change on anything I have tried to date so I’ll try again with some wiggling of the plug.?

[Sheepish]

Hi Ron

 

Thanks for the extra information.  
 

The throttle cut idea is the same as I use, I figured that simple is good and one switch is enough to stop me mistakenly opening the throttle or knocking the stick.
On my Radiomaster I can change the “sticks” to “channels” and I guess it’s the difference between raw stick values and input values.

 

I’m definitely not using the headphone socket, that was my first thought when this didn’t work but it’s always good to ask the question.?

[Ron Gray]

A fellow flyer at my club has a Radiomaster and I know that he was going to set it up as a Trainer TX to connect to his Spektrum TX as the Student. I'll ask him if he managed to do that.

[Max Z]

One thing that is easy to forget (at least I do) is that you have to activate the special function or the global function by ticking the box at the end of the text line.

[Ron Gray]

Just spoken to my flying buddy, he uses his Radiomaster as the Student to his Jeti trainer TX connected with a mono lead but he has a rubber washer on the jack plug to stop it going into the Radiomaster socket too far!

[Sheepish]

Thanks for the extra information Ron, I’ll try this out when I have some time again later.

 

Max Z thanks for the heads up on the tick box, I didn’t see it to start with but I have been using it since.  I’ve even tried setting up the trainer function so it hands over each channel individually too.

 

Hopefully I can get this to work and I’ll post some pictures of what did work in the end.

[Sheepish]

Afternoon All

 

Firstly thanks to everyone who helped with this problem.

 

Secondly I now know what the problem is, the socket in the Radiomaster tx is very, very picky over the plug used to connect to it.  

 

For the benefit of anyone still interested in this, the set up is as Mike and Ron detailed earlier.  ie…

 

Both tx’s need to be switched on, the teachers tx needs the trainer switch allocated in the special function menu, the global function menu can be left blank for the trainer function.  The teachers tx needs to be set to Master/jack and the model receiver bound to this tx with the rf switched on.  

The student tx is set to slave/jack and the internal and external rf switched off in the setup menus.  Both tx’s need a model memory set and selected to use.

it seems that it doesn’t matter if there is or isn’t an rx bound to the master tx for this to work successfully.  Monitoring either the trainer cal screen as Mike suggests or the channel monitors or listening for the trainer signal connection announcement will all work to tell you if you have success.

 

The connecting cable to the QX7 can be mono, stereo or four channel it doesn’t seem to matter.  The TX16S is another matter.  
The best result I have had is with a four channel lead but only by very extreme wiggling and the result is not in anyway reliable to use.  

As soon as the trainer signal connection is made the TX16S tells you (without any further programming on my part) and it also tells you when it’s lost signal too.  

The next challenge is to either find a cable that works directly or examine why the DSC/ trainer socket in the TX16S is so unreliable.

 

[Sheepish]

A photo here of the four section socket in the TX16S with the four section plug lead next to it.

 

The plug would seem to be a little short for this socket?

 

Strangely the connection could only be made to work by pulling the lead out of the socket and leaning in sideways with some force to make it connect.  I guess it’s finding the correct areas to connect to to makes this happen regardless of the sections on the plug.
 

It looks like I need a longer plug to make this work properly perhaps?

 

No idea how I would know the length of a plug on a pre made lead they are what they are, unless someone knows different?

 

If the plugs were longer perhaps a mono or a stereo lead would work?

[EarlyBird]

Well done! Others have had this problem and now we know why. Cut a bit off the plastic from the socket at the bottom of your picture?

[Sheepish]

Thanks EarlyBird, that is something I could try but there is a plastic cover that also holds the aerial which will get in the way too, I removed this to take the picture.  I would need to cut a large hole as it would need to clear the barrel of the plug to make this work.

 

I wondered if it was possible to obtain longer length 3.5mm plugs? - maybe from RS or Farnell perhaps?

 

I would be OK to make my own lead if I could source the plugs but it would be better to have a ready made lead and save the work.  The advantage of DIY is I could use different plugs at each end to suit the two tx’s different sockets.

 

I have some 3.5mm mono plugs already as I have used them for remote glow connectors in the past but they are all the same length.  
I figure that if Radiomaster can use this socket there must be a plug out there that fits it properly?

 

Shaun

 

 

[Outrunner]

Probably not quite what you are looking for but Hobby RC list a wireless TX16 plug in module. It looks like a four way jack on the end of it. 

 

https://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/radiomaster-wt01-wireless-trainer-module