leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 For various reasons I still want to make use of old PCs and laptops, but I've come up against a snag. My last HP desktop computer has been very little used in recent years, since I mostly use an MS Surface for daily computing. However that HP desktop was still used for printing documents, for scanning and for driving my Silhouette Cameo vinyl cutter. It's a legacy HP PC, running Windows 7 Pro and yes, I know it's outdated, but still perfectly usable MS Office applications and other applications software and set up with a pair of rather nice Illyama monitors, which I used to use as my business workstation. There's no internet access in the workshop -stone walls do not permit even wireless repeaters to "see" the BT Hub router in the house. That all worked fine until a couple of weeks ago, when the PC crashed and refused to boot up. I've run all available diagnostics and it's now at the stage where Windows Repair is failing to get the HDD to boot up, despite trying it's best. Okay, I thought, it's reached the end of it's useful life, but I still have a perfectly usable retired Sony Vaio laptop, which ought to be able to drive that kit and has almost all of the software that I need on there-plus it has a DVD drive, so I can load any that is missing. However the issue comes in trying to drive dual monitors. No problem, I'm sure that docking stations for these can be picked up for a few quid. They can, but apparently despite what it says in the manual it isn't easy, or even possible, to consistently drive two monitors with the SE series laptops. I've tried with my works workstation, which has a nifty Dell 6000 docking station and the Sony couldn't recognise the dock- I'd though that getting one of those might be an option. The dilemma here is whether to a. get the desktop repaired -is that even a "thing" these days? I'm not concerned about dabbling around inside a desktop but TBH I've lost all interest in spending weeks troubleshooting Windows computers . BTDT, grown out of the T-shirt. Plus I would struggle to find all of the Windows installation discs. b. replace the desktop with a refurbished, old, Windows 7 machine that is at least working c. replace the desktop with a new Windows 11 desktop - though it seems that is likely to cause a real problem if such a desktop has no connection to the internet-and installing/replicating the software, even if possible, will be a pain. d. live with using the Sony laptop without using the dual monitors. I'm sure that there are others who are keeping old PCs running beyond their normal life-span - what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Why not just re-install win7 on your HP? Computers do not reach the end of their useful lives until the firmware and software will no longer support the hardware. HP have a hdd test utility, read about it here https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1PvDgi5ikL.pdf run that from a bootable USB stick to establish if the HDD has any problems and if OK format the disk and reinstall win7, there are plenty of .iso's available. If the HDD is dead then it is a simple and cheap task to replace it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I suppose it depends on what's crashed. It's most likely the HD as that's a mechanical device. If you have a back-up image of the drive you could try fitting a new HD (I have a 250 GB SSD in my desk top that I use for local back up and cost about £35 IIRC) and restoring from your image. If that doesn't work the SSD could still be useful in another machine as back up or even as the OS drive because of its speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham R Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Is running a Cat5 exterior cable in a switch or an old router a possible solution for your workshop? That way you can get wifi in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Had a similar problem with an old laptop running win7. Took the old hdd out, fitted a new ssd and increased the memory, reinstalled windows and drivers and it's working better than ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Graham we had intended running underground cable through the existing conduit, to provide a wired connection, but on investigation the conduit was blocked off and so would need excavation to add an exterior cable, which I don't really want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Thanks for the advice chaps, it sounds like adding a new SSD is going to be the most painless way to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I agree with the guys suggesting a repair of the HP. Its very doubtful the hardware has gone and its likely a software issue or something like a ram module is not seting correctly. Sometimes the contacts can get dirty even when plugged in so i would whip the ram modules out and reseat them after a clean with some contact cleaner on a tissue. Some compressed air in the ram slots may help purge the dust if there is any. That might fix it, but if the software is already damaged then I would have a go at a reinstall of Win7 on either the same drive or a new SSD. The SSD would help with the speed massively. You could install windows 10 if you want, the windows 7 key on your hp machine will work for 10 as well. It might even have a key built into its bios firmware so i would go for a clean sweep. If you do use 7, update it as far as you can then disable the updates. If you are not doing anything other than workshop stuff on it then it hardly matters if the security is not 100% In terms of keeping old pc's alive all of the computers i put together for the 'new' office at laser are about 10 years old but for our purposes they are more than adequate. One needed a graphics card added recently for our 3d cad package, but beyond that they are unmodified beyond SSD boot drives. All but one run windows 10, and the one on the shop floor uses win 7 as windows 10 will not play well with the remote handheld thing we use for moving programs to and from the various machines. I disabled the auto updates to prevent it installing 10 all on its own. The pc i am writing this post on is made from components about 10 years old and its hooked up to my tv as a media centre. Its got all my dvd movies and box sets copied to it so i can just click a few buttons and access anything i want. I also have a laptop with a dead screen hooked up to a monitor with a few dead pixels in my shed. Both are old and ruined so i dont care if i spill paint and glue all over them. They provide me with music while i work and the ability to look up stuff online if i need to. Keep the old stuff going. Much more ecological than sending it to landfill 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 minute ago, leccyflyer said: Thanks for the advice chaps, it sounds like adding a new SSD is going to be the most painless way to proceed. Make sure you get the right one as there are about 5 types. You want a 2.5 inch SATA SSD. For your purposes 120 gig would probably be plenty. You could even keep the old HDD installed for mass storage and just boot from the speedy SSD. Its what i did with my media pc. 120 gig boot drive and 4tb hard drive for all the data. they are so cheap now https://www.ebuyer.com/858271-integral-120gb-v-series-v2-ssd-inssd120gs625v2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Would a pair of powerline adapters solve the remote non wi-fi connection ? It's what I use for my TV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Powerline adapters are what I used to use in our previous place Pat, where the desktop was on the third floor of a granite house and the router next to the ADSL socket in the basement. They worked well, but the house and workshops are on different ring mains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham R Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: Graham we had intended running underground cable through the existing conduit, to provide a wired connection, but on investigation the conduit was blocked off and so would need excavation to add an exterior cable, which I don't really want to do. Leccyflyer, All that I did with mine was to run the exterior cat5 cable along the fence and through the window frame. Crude but It has worked well for some 5 years. Edited November 21, 2021 by Graham R 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Thanks Graham - unfortunately the configuration of the site won't allow that - we need vehicle access between the workshop and the house, so underground or high overhead catenary are the only cable options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, leccyflyer said: Graham we had intended running underground cable through the existing conduit, to provide a wired connection, but on investigation the conduit was blocked off and so would need excavation to add an exterior cable, which I don't really want to do. leccy,you can buy a dongle for a tenner to convert your pc to wireless,using one of your usb ports...if thats what you were wanting to do using the underground conduit?....you are spoiled for choice in your opening post.... ken anderson./..ne..1...wireless dept. Edited November 21, 2021 by ken anderson. added some more words of wisdom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Ken - unfortunately the thick stone walls of the outbuildings that house my workshops is too much for the wireless signal from the router. None of my laptops - which all have in-built wireless- nor my mobile. is able to access the wi-fi from inside the outbuildings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 I've confirmed that the issue is with the HDD, so I'll order up an SSD and go from there. The HP's do keep a recovery of the vital files as a partition on the HDD. but that isn't much use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Can you put a repeater in the roof space or a weatherproof container above it/mounted to the outside of the stone wall and run a cat 5 cable inside from there? A remote aerial might be even easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: I've confirmed that the issue is with the HDD, so I'll order up an SSD and go from there. The HP's do keep a recovery of the vital files as a partition on the HDD. but that isn't much use. You could try cloning the hdd onto the ssd then activating the recovery partition on the ssd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: Can you put a repeater in the roof space or a weatherproof container above it/mounted to the outside of the stone wall and run a cat 5 cable inside from there? A remote aerial might be even easier. That was another idea that we discussed with the electrician when he was doing the second fix electrics for the workshops. Since I didn't need internet in the workshops I didn't bother in the end. We'll be moving onto phase two next year, so it might be worth incorporating at that stage. Once the network connectivity is out there the Powerline adaptors are the idea solution to the problem of two foot thick stone walls. Some great suggestions in this thread gents - it's appreciated. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 If you can't clone the existing hard drive or re-install windows, you could install Linux and give that a go, before you spend any money on a new version of Windows. Incidentally the HDD failed on my wifes laptop, it was so broken I couldn't clone it, but after putting in an SSD and creating USB boot drive I was able to reinstall windows 10, which recognised the computer and reinstalled for free. Her laptop is a HP and you had to basically take it all apart to replace the HDD, whereas my Sony Vaio had a separate small one screw panel to get at the HDD so changing that out was about 10x quicker. I also put an SSD in an old desktop while my son was still uni (doing his PhD) and he used his student account to get me a free copy of Windows................... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: That was another idea that we discussed with the electrician when he was doing the second fix electrics for the workshops. Since I didn't need internet in the workshops I didn't bother in the end. We'll be moving onto phase two next year, so it might be worth incorporating at that stage. Once the network connectivity is out there the Powerline adaptors are the idea solution to the problem of two foot thick stone walls. Some great suggestions in this thread gents - it's appreciated. ? I know the problems with thick stone walls and trying to get any sort of RF transmission through/round them! Our 200 year old cottage has similar issues - I can't imagine why they weren't thought of when they built and added to its construction. Short sighted those Victorians! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ferguson 2 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) I've replaced about 30 hard disks with SSDs in laptops. Usually 240GB, possibly be 25 pounds as they are $NZ57 here. They get Linux Mint installed on them and the Windows disk is plugged in via a USB-SATA cable and all files and folders copied across. If the owner buys a cable they can use their old HD for backup. Laptops range in ease of fitting from one screw to replace the disk to 20, plus 5 under the keyboard, and then a "crowbar". It appears your desktop problem is the hard disk. If it hadn't been then the suggestion would have been to remove a cover and scan the motherboard. Also remove the power supply and look it over. What you'd be looking for are capacitors with bulged tops. They must be absolutely flat otherwise it indicates a dud. Edited November 23, 2021 by Alex Ferguson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Being a HP system it may not play well with linux as it will have a microsoft activation key baked into the motherboard and hp do all sorts of custom hardware on their boards. Slap new windows on and you will be good to go. The 5 machines i built here at the factory didnt have drives in when i got them but 3 picked up the windows key from the motherboard and the remaining two needed the key from the case sticker which was still stuck to them. Windows 7 and 8 keys work with windows 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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