BMFA membership documents for 2022

[kc]

I received my renewed membership document by email today ( 3 Jan ) and note that the insurance certificate starts from 3rdJan while I paid my club way back in December and I expected the insurance to start from Jan 1st as the previous years membership ended 31 Dec.   That would seem to imply I was not insured over the weekend ( 1st and 2nd Jan )   Is it an error or did my club pay the subs in rather late?
Is yours the same?

 

The other documents supplied as pdf are so wordy and full of unclear points that it's difficult to tell what is legal.   

[leccyflyer]

Renewed mine through the portal on 9th December and my insurance certificate says it's valid from that date to 31/12/2022.

[Bryan Lea]

There was a change of insurer.  BMFA members have been insured all for of the Christmas/ New Year period.

 

[Frank Skilbeck]

KC, as far as I am aware (and I do our club subs etc) the e-mail comes out from the BMFA very shortly after the membership is processed, so I suspect this is the date your club processed your membership.

 

I usually do ours in two batches, one mid Dec and then just before the New Year, so some members may have just missed my arbitrary first cut off date. It makes life easier for both the club Treasurer and myself. 

[kc]

Frank.   What I am trying to find out is whether this was a general thing or if it applied just to me.   If it's just me then it may well be due to me having to change the club that collects my BMFA subs this time ( my other club lost its both it's flying fields & gave up collecting BMFA subs when we didn't get enough help to regain the field   ).  Therefore it's possible some typographical error occurred just on my document due to main club change.    But regardless my BMFA membership should still be continuous and show 1st Jan as somewhere in the BMFA  it says one is insured from the moment the local club accepts the payment and that was on 29th November!  

 

As regards the change of insurer mentioned by Bryan-  both Hiscock and QBE insurance are mentioned on the certificate so it's not due to that.  Curiously the BMFA News says AXA  XL would be the insurer for 2022 and didn't mention QBE. 

So has anyone else been sent a certificate which only starts 3rd Jan ?  

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

3 minutes ago, kc said:

But regardless my BMFA membership should still be continuous and show 1st Jan as somewhere in the BMFA  it says one is insured from the moment the local club accepts the payment and that was on 29th November!  

You are indeed insured from the moment the club receives your payment. However the membership system doesnt know when you pay the club, only when it is processed.

[kc]

Thanks for that Andy, so is it just an error on my documents only ?   If so I will email BMFA to correct as I have been a BMFA member since 1984 and renewed subs every year well before the year end.

[Frank Skilbeck]

KC, the date on the document is only when club renewed you with the BMFA it doesn't affect how long you have been with the BMFA. I've had members rejoin after a few years away and we've been able to pick up their BMFA membership.

 

For instance my membership document says starts 17th Dec, which is when I did the clubs first batch, on the 2nd batch it shows 30th Dec, and there are still a few stragglers yet to pay, so there's will start when I do a batch after there's have been received.

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

2 hours ago, kc said:

Thanks for that Andy, so is it just an error on my documents only ?   If so I will email BMFA to correct as I have been a BMFA member since 1984 and renewed subs every year well before the year end.

Its not an error. That is simply the date the club processed your membership. 

[leccyflyer]

Presumably, as always, your membership and insurance starts from the moment that you pay your BMFA fees to your club, if that is the way that you normalcy pay - since the club is acting as the BMFA's agent.

[Cuban8]

12 hours ago, Frank Skilbeck said:

KC, the date on the document is only when club renewed you with the BMFA it doesn't affect how long you have been with the BMFA. I've had members rejoin after a few years away and we've been able to pick up their BMFA membership.

 

For instance my membership document says starts 17th Dec, which is when I did the clubs first batch, on the 2nd batch it shows 30th Dec, and there are still a few stragglers yet to pay, so there's will start when I do a batch after there's have been received.

A suggestion to encourage the stragglers is to offer a discount for prompt payment. Raise your subs and then apply the discount. Works a treat.

[Peter Christy]

I'm on the committee of one small club, and we now insist that members do their own BMFA renewals via the portal. This considerably reduces the load on treasurers / membership secs. A number of other nearby clubs have now followed our lead.

 

It is quite easy for the committee members to check who has renewed their BMFA/CAA and who hasn't via the portal, and all the treasurer has to do is collect the club subs.

 

Interestingly, I'm not aware of anyone in our club (or the neighbouring ones) who has had an issue doing this - even the ones who claim to be "computer illiterate"! When we started doing this, I did send out an "idiot's guide", which I passed on to the neighbouring club committees as well, and it has considerably reduced the workload come renewal time.

 

Once our members had done their renewals this way the first time, even those who were worried about it said that they couldn't believe how easy it was, and wished we could have done it that way years ago!

 

--

Pete

 

[kc]

Yes it's a lot of work for the club treasurer so it may be better to do it direct.

 

However we are getting away from the point.........    Andy said   "   You are indeed insured from the moment the club receives your payment  "    and my club received my payment 29 Nov -  so why does my insurance certificate show not show 1st Jan as the start date?       Surely that's the important thing  the insurance aspect!   Must have correct dates on certificates!  

Edited January 4, 2022 by kc

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I feel you’re overthinking this KC.  Andy Symons has confirmed that your cover has been in force continuously and that the renewal/insurer replacement was activated when your club received your renewal payment. 
 

The date on your certificate simply reflects the date that it was processed at the BMFA office and has nothing to do with the validity of your insurance. 

[Cuban8]

If having members renew their own BMFA works for a particular club then that's fine. Personally, I don't see how it simplifies things for membership secs because of the requirement to check up on whether members have paid and then chasing them up because they've forgotten, or like the idea of putting off the payment until the better weather in Spring /Summer. I've handled the memberships for my club for almost 25 years now and even with the faff of CAA, which we handle for members as well,  I'm just about ready to close down my spreadsheet on 2022 renewals. I don't find it onerous or a bother at all.

To my knowledge, clubs have always acted as an agent of the BMFA and this was clearly stated in the little booklet that we used to get with old membership contact's paperwork. I still have a copy of those notes and IIRC, payments could be held by clubs for up to 60 days before sending to BMFA. I did ask what the current period was now and was advised to send the payments as soon as possible.

[kc]

Martin, I think it's essential to have the correct date on an insurance certificate.   The date I am questioning  is the date that the insurance certificate shows as the start date of membership and therefore insurance.    It has to be right!   If there were an insurance claim from 1st or 2nd Jan then no doubt people would claim I was not insured if the start date was 3rd!    Also it's not just the BMFA - remember that BMFA membership gives some right to flying heights etc that don't apply to non members!        Documents have to be correct.    

 

(  I originally thought this was a general thing and probably applied to many others, therefore I raised it on this forum.   However it seems as though it only applies to me and it's probably a typing error somewhere which should be put right privately.   But as it's been raised on the forum it also needs to be finalised here.   )

Edited January 4, 2022 by kc

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Which people are going to claim you weren’t insured?  Certainly not the BMFA who issue paperwork on behalf of the insurers. 
 

In the incredibly unlikely event that a constable requested retrospective proof of membership, this would surely be provided by the BMFA on request. Would any paperwork issued retrospectively- as in this case - have any better validity in law?

 

If this does indeed only apply to you, then any further correspondence would be better with the BMFA office directly.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Reopened topic as OP will address his dating related concerns directly with the BMFA but feels some useful points regarding renewal procedures have been raised.

[kc]

As Martin said, I will sort out my certificate with BMFA.    However it is a reminder to check all insurance  documents carefully ( especialy car and house insurance ) as any typographical error might later come back to haunt you!

 

Both Peter Christy and Cuban 8 made good but rather opposite points about how we pay our BMFA subs which I think deserve the opportunity of continued discussion.    The BMFA has long had the free help from local club treasurers in collecting subs but now modern technology has changed things a lot.  Is it better to pay through your local club or direct?

[Dickw]

As a member of several clubs I prefer to renew direct via the BMFA site as this is an immediate transaction and all my clubs can see I am a BMFA member.

If I renewed via my primary club and they delayed processing the renewal (e.g. while waiting for the bulk of members to pay) the other clubs would not accept me as a member until the primary club got round to processing my membership.

Perhaps not a problem for most people, but it is the best/quickest way for me.

 

Dick

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

OP will address his dating related concerns

I would suggest that he his definitely on the wrong site! ❤️

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

The answers given by the BMFA and others look entirely reasonable and consistant with the way it has been for ever, can't see the issue myself, however, paying your own would solve what you see as a problem.

 

Pay yourself or via your club ? Swings and roundabouts for me. Our club ? Pay yourself if you want, or via the club, no drama either way.

 

Date on my doc ? Couldn't care less, The BMFA tells me I'm insured from when I pay my club, they know their job, good enough for me.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Same here John, some like to do there own BMFA, others like to make a single payment for club/BMFA/CAA, heck we even have one who still insists on paying by cheque ? 

[RottenRow]

3 hours ago, Dickw said:

As a member of several clubs I prefer to renew direct via the BMFA site as this is an immediate transaction and all my clubs can see I am a BMFA member.

If I renewed via my primary club and they delayed processing the renewal (e.g. while waiting for the bulk of members to pay) the other clubs would not accept me as a member until the primary club got round to processing my membership.

 

A very good point, and something that happens with a handfull of our club members. In the 'old days' before the online membership system, club secretaries received a sheet of 'temporary membership' cards that they could give to any member who had paid their BMFA membership to that club and who required proof for flying elsewhere prior to receiving their printed and signed membership documents through the post. Nowadays there is no proof of payment apart from the member's / club's word and possibly bank statements if payment was via a transfer, until the club actually processes the BMFA memberships.

 

As treasurer and membership secretary I prefer to process as many of our club members' BMFA and CAA subs as possible purely because it saves having to chase up those that haven't paid theirs for some reason. That's just my preference and others will have different views.

 

2 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Pay yourself or via your club ? Swings and roundabouts for me. Our club ? Pay yourself if you want, or via the club, no drama either way.

 

Exactly. We try to keep everybody happy...

 

Brian.

[Cuban8]

19 hours ago, kc said:

As Martin said, I will sort out my certificate with BMFA.    However it is a reminder to check all insurance  documents carefully ( especialy car and house insurance ) as any typographical error might later come back to haunt you!

 

Both Peter Christy and Cuban 8 made good but rather opposite points about how we pay our BMFA subs which I think deserve the opportunity of continued discussion.    The BMFA has long had the free help from local club treasurers in collecting subs but now modern technology has changed things a lot.  Is it better to pay through your local club or direct?

No right or wrong way to do it if it works for you! At one stage some ten or fifteen years ago when my club maxed out at almost 150 members, it was best for us to process everyone's BMFA so there was very little to do in the way of dealing with uninsured members and reminders etc. Quite a bit of work to administer the then paper based system but even so, we had everyone who intended to keep their membership all paid up and insured by the end of January - maybe one or two regular stragglers who came through a bit later. I suppose smaller and possibly more close knit clubs could rely on their members to sort their own BMFA without too much trouble if it was preferred.

I have to say that the membership portal and in particular the 'Bulk Renew' facility has been a game changer in terms of simplifying things and having access to members' records e.g BMFA status if renewing via a different club - I think our members appreciate what the club does for them as it's another thing that doesn't have to be thought about too much with all that's going on at the moment. We've encouraged the take up of bank transfer payments over the last few years and that is the way 3/4 of our members pay now. All but three members are web connected for emails etc so I just print off their insurance certificates and pop them in the snail mail.

The comment about clubs delaying payments and BMFA members of several clubs having problems joining without proof of BMFA needn't be an issue IMHO. If the person involved pays their subs via a club before the end of the bulk renew period i.e end of December, then that person's BMFA status will be instantly updated. Leaving it until after January 1st I can see might introduce a short dely but this can be avoided by renewing early as stated.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Cuban8