Martyn Johnston Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 And another question about the same area. This (pre-cut ply) goes up against this same 2nd diagonal. The plan suggests cutting the side slots further back 'for R/C'. Why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 I think I've just realised that this shaped ply (and a similar one without the round cut-out) should have gone in BEFORE I glued the two halves of the fuselage together (there are actually two on the plan, but four provided; I don't know why yet). - It would have acted as the template to get the angles right. - It might have explained where the second diagonal goes. - It won't go in now; there's no way to get it into place without breaking something. I love building but I'd have liked at least a few comments/suggestions on the plan ? I still can't imagine why I should cut the side slots longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Only reason I can think of Martyn is for cross beams to go in, hard to visualise though, tank bay or something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 18 minutes ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said: Only reason I can think of Martyn is for cross beams to go in, hard to visualise though, tank bay or something ? Hard to see isn't it. When (if) I get the ply sheets in I'll have to make something up ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 The only reason I can think of is so the side ply engine bearers will be bigger and stronger for RC the same as the other strengthening elements like the balsa infill at the front. There is no detail for the servo tray. ? I am thinking this model is not for the first time builder due to the lack of instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wagg Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Both ply bulkheads should have have gone in first as you have discovered. Part "B" is the mount for the undercarriage. Outerzone has downloads for both the plan and a build article which may be of assistance ? https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2081 I've no idea what the extra cut-outs are for either. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 I definitely CAN'T get the two plywood bulkhead parts into the fuselage now it's assembled. I'm gonna have to 'break' some joints to get them in ? . Before I do, do I need to make the undercarriage wire and either fit it, or at least position the saddle clamps, 'cos there's no access afterwards.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Yes fit the undercarriage. Also work out where and how the electrics will go and make provision for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 Haven't even STARTED to think about electrics/motor/servos/battery etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, Martyn Johnston said: Haven't even STARTED to think about electrics/motor/servos/battery etc... That's what I assumed. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Martyn Johnston said: I definitely CAN'T get the two plywood bulkhead parts into the fuselage now it's assembled.I'm gonna have to 'break' some joints to get them in ? . Before I do, do I need to make the undercarriage wire and either fit it, or at least position the saddle clamps, 'cos there's no access afterwards.. After drilling for the U/C, cut the two ply formers vertically down their centrelines. Glue each half in separately, then fill the kerf with thin ply and/or epoxy a strip of said ply over the rear of each former to reinforce the joint. Re the 1st diagonal - it doesn't appear in the original 44" version. The way it's drawn on the BB plan indicates it goes behind the engine bearer. It doesn't - it abuts it like the 1st vertical former does at former A. I don't think the extra cut-out in former B is necessary. I guess it was intended to make it easier to 'let in' the 1/4 sheet infill 'for RC'. NB don't let the stringers fool you re the infill - it's in 3 triangular parts and goes from the top longeron/engine bearer, down to the bottom hard sheet former. Leave off this step until you've got the u/c bolted in. Motor/ESC/Battery: Put the motor on an X-mount with standoffs from former A - put a 1/8 ply doubler at the top of A to take this. If you choose the right X-mount, a 3S (or even a 4S) battery will slide down behind this (between the standoffs) vertically in front of former A. There's enough room for a 60A ESC in the forward part of the cowl under the motor. All the major weight in the cowl - balance without ballast... ? HTH Edited January 28, 2022 by Mike T more info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 ? Sounds easy when you say it like that ? I like the idea of cutting the bulkheads: why didn't I think of that !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 I'm giving up on the fuse for now; I'll wait 'til I get a motor and then build the front end around that. Any suggestions for a motor ? I've emailed '4-Max' to ask for suggestions. The nearest I can see on their website is a PO-3535-870, but I don't profess to know what those numbers mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 Now revisiting the horizontal stabilizer. I've built it all in one piece. Then cut along to remove the two elevator parts. But the plan is really not clear at all about what happens in the middle. Maybe I've misread it and this rear 'spar' should run all the way across and the 1/16" sheet should go on 'afterwards'. The first picture here, of the plan, shows a part (white arrow) that surely shouldn't be there. And I stall can't see how the fin attaches to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Looking at the plan the slot runs from LE to TE and the fin slots into it. But F4 is cut to sit on top of the tailplane, not a good idea, so I would add some balsa to F4 so it fits to the bottom of the tailplane. The spars can all be left in the slot and the extended fin cut around them leaving them in for strength. The plan shows the elevator spar and the tailplane spar are shown as dotted chain lines, I think this indicates that the elevator was an option in the design. ? F4 being cut as it is I would think is a misinterpretation of the plan and is not unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 The last motor number probably refers to kv so 870 would be 870kv = revs per volt which means a 3S Lipo at 11.1 volts would turn the prop at about 9657 rpm. A 4S Lipo at 14.8 volts would turn it at about 12876 rpm ( probably too much ? ) The first part of the number used to refer to motor diameter and length eg 35 by 35mm in this case, but it's not always so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Rather than break the joints to fit those ply parts in why not consider cutting the ply in half lengthways and seeing if they can be fitted in without disturbing the framework? The cut in part A could be glued and reinforced by a ply crosspiece just where the u/c bolts are located. Much easier to get all the u/c bolt holes and everything arranged before fitting! Part A will need a hole drilled to allow the wires from ESC to Rx to pass through. Part B probably does not do much in an electric model so just lap the cut with a couple of tiny bits of ply. I see that the 4 Max motor like most of their motors bolts on at the front and the rear part rotates. Other makes bolt on at the back, also 4Max Value Pack motor. Use whichever seems better but bear in mind the rotating part must clear all the wires and the Lipo. The Lipo might be fitted vertically in this model in which case a vertical plate with Velcro could hold the Lipo and keep it away from rotating part of a front mounted motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 George, at 4-Max, has recommended a PO-3541-1070 motor. Slightly larger than necessary, he says, but ideal for this size, and typo, of plane. So I've ordered that, and will revisit the fuse later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just noticed that I've put the planking all the way across the from of the tailplane mid-section, not as the plan. that's easily fixed; once i understand how to attach the fin properly. Thanks for you comments Earlybird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 I will split the wedge-shaped bulkheads when the time comes. Anybody any idea why there are four supplied (two with the hole cut-out and two without). I can only see one of each on the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Super Scorpion build - RC Groups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 So, the top fin slots over the tailplane main-spar and is glued to the tailplane !? Should the rear tailplane spar go all the way across the tailplane itself? or is it cut into two like mine ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 The top fin slots into the tailplane. In the top photo you can see tabs that are inserted into the slot. The tailplane spar goes right across. The elevator spar is cut so the elevator is in two pieces and there will be a wire joiner. The part of the sheeted and fixed elevator will have a slot for the elevator wire to pass through and will be glued in place after the elevator is fixed in place. This maybe is not Belair plan but gives you the idea. Follow the link and towards the end is an electric version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I would expect the tailplane to fail if the spar was not continuous. Might fail in flight or just when knocked putting it into the car. Easier to fix now! The 4 Max motors when backplate mounted often need the shaft cut off to allow the Lipo to come well forward. It seems people wrap the motors in tape to prevent metal swarf getting inside and then use a cut off wheel in a Dremel. Personally I find it easier to buy motors with the shaft the correct end to avoid this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 This is more like yours the spar is continuous and the same for the elevator. It looks like a work in progress though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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