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BMFA Mag February 2022.


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17 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said:

As a tyro flyer you will be unaware of the importance of the BMFA to the future of flying. ....The esteem in which EASA and our own Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) holds the BMFA, and Dave Phipps in particular, is one of the reasons we in the UK have ended up with a situation that is essentially business as usual.  It could quite easily have been a very different outcome and you might not have been able to become a tyro flyer quite so easily.....the BMFA is more than just the provider of insurance for flying model aircraft

Peter, thanks - I'm actually aware of the value of the BMFA in the respects you mention, and I didn't mean to belittle it. I was trying simply to emphasise my comparative lack of interest in the magazine, other finctions of the BMFA being in my view considerably more important. My post was really about the magazine, and my opinion of its quality.

rgds Tony

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18 hours ago, kc said:

I don't actually remember being given the opportunity to vote on the SMAE directors,  but maybe it's just my memory at fault!   Can anybody remember such a vote?

The worst thing that can happen to a club is to have uncontested elections and not let any 'new blood' come in.  So lets hope we see several nominations for this post and a proper election.

The CV's of all those that stood last year were in the Oct 2021 Edition of BMFA News, together with a Postage paid Ballot paper for those seats which were contested. The same thing has been happening each year since 2006.

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5 hours ago, Tony Harrison 2 said:

Peter, thanks - I'm actually aware of the value of the BMFA in the respects you mention, and I didn't mean to belittle it. I was trying simply to emphasise my comparative lack of interest in the magazine, other finctions of the BMFA being in my view considerably more important. My post was really about the magazine, and my opinion of its quality.

rgds Tony

Hi Tony

 

It was this phrase in you original post to which I was replying.  "I belong purely for the insurance and because my club requires it."  That was after your expressed your views on the magazine.  If you have a more positive view of the BMFA in the round then that is good news.  I took your comment at its face value, and your's would not be the only view like that and hence my reply.

 

In John Lee's post above, you will see another key function of the magazine which is to show who is standing for election to either the BMFA Executive or other posts subject to members' votes.  

 

As others have mentioned, I do find the magazine interesting but don't always read every article.  In the same way, I don't read every article in RCM&E nor the daily newspaper.  However, as a participant in aerobatics and an interest in scale I do almost always read those articles and find them very good.  I also find the information from Dave Phipps, Manny and Andy of great interest.  Dave has kept us uipdated on progress, and setbacks, on the Drone laws saga for the past 5 years and the BMFA News is the only magazine which will carry this information.

 

You clearly have a skill set that could be of use to the BMFA so why don't you contact head office (Andy in the first instance perhaps) and offer to help.  You might be able to achieve the changes that you think would make the magazine better.

 

Best regards

 

Peter

Edited by Peter Jenkins
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9 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

In New Zealand I think, you have to vote, you don't have to in this country.....

 

Take that the right way, apply what you glean...we won't get fooled again, good song !

 

You posted exactly the same thing yesterday on this thread! It wasn't exactly relevant the first time.

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30 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said:

You clearly have a skill set that could be of use to the BMFA so why don't you contact head office (Andy in the first instance perhaps) and offer to help.  You might be able to achieve the changes that you think would make the magazine better.

Thanks Peter, but as a freelance photographer and journalist, I'm retired - and I have far too much going on in my life to take on what you suggest! In the past I edited (voluntarily) the magazine of a national angling club, and it took up a lot of my time - in fact a big chunk of my spare time. As a tyro I doubt my input would be well received anyway - and I spend a few months each year abroad... I'm glad you appreciate the BMFA magazine, but I don't think it's terribly good, and it's not why I got back into aero-modelling after a very long time away.

rgds Tony

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17 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

Can we assume you'll put your name in the hat kc?  You'll only see an election if there are candidates for the position.  I may be wrong but I believe Pete Christy, who often posts here, was largely responsible for the policy change some years ago, enabling per member postal voting for these positions but it's many years since the need for a vote arose.

Of course I knew someone would say that!    Frankly if I lived in the Leicester area and I was a lot younger then I possibly might.......but really it needs to be a serious challenge from a person who has knowledge of how the BMFA works..    I am sure there would be plenty of other suitable candidates amongst the membership but by giving only 28 days notice there is really no chance for anybody except an insider to prepare support.  

If the BMFA really want to attract younger members ( one of the Members Director's tasks) then surely one of the best ways to improve how the BMFA seems to youngsters would be to ban any photos of people wearing dinner jackets!    Is there anything more outdated and bound to put youngsters off than photo after photo of people wearing a uniform just to have a meal and accept a trophy!   

 

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Funny how youngsters like dressing up to go to their school prom!

 

I quite enjoy dressing up and ladies certainly do.  I've never had the opportunity to attend the dinner but don't see photos of people receiving prizes from our Patron or his wife as anything particularly off putting to young folk.  I have grandchildren who enjoy dressing up for their prom.

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Obviously there are some people who don't know, or understand the difference between a commercial magazine and a trade journal. The latter of which the BMFA magazine is. Most Trade journals are not produced by professional staff, but by by the staff of the association, as the BMFA is.

The other difference is that it is aimed at giving you information, not trying to sell you something using thinly veiled "editorial".

With regards to the costs of producing it, I assume (as is the normal practice) that it is paid for by the advertisers and sponsorship from the industry.

Over the last couple of (Covid) years I have seen many changes to the magazine, which I personally think are great. They have had to think outside the competition orientated box and hopefully there will be no going back. 

 

I get the impression that the thought process runs along the lines that if the magazine wasn't produced, then the insurance would be cheaper.

I suggest if that is the case, then next year try getting the same insurance cover elsewhere at a lower price !

 

Don't forget that after all we are a very small community, which generally relies on good old fashioned cottage industries.

 

Ok. Finished now. Any body want to use my soap box ?   :classic_biggrin:

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Speaking as a tyro flyer I have to say that frankly, I find the BMFA mag dull and hardly ever useful. I wonder what proportion of the BMFA membership appreciates, values or enjoys the magazine? I wonder by how much the sub could be reduced by ditching the magazine? I belong purely for the insurance and because my club requires it. If the magazine was better - and I've worked professionally with many magazine titles, UK and abroad - it might provide added value to membership, but really, it's hopelessly old fashioned and amateurish.Perhaps. But what would you say that is, EB?Neither of these is obviously true in my opinion, and I'm not sure what you mean by "what's going on" - unless it's shows, open days etc? In general I find neither the magazine nor the occasional BMFA emails informative - at least, no information that I want or need. And my post was at least half concerned with the actual quality & style of the mag, not simply the existence of a mag for BMFA members. I'm sure others enjoy and appreciate the magazine, as you clearly do, but I just don't think it's terribly goodOn the contrary, EB, everything's looking rosy. I'm just curious to know what you think is the reason or justification for the magazine. I can see perfectly well that a really good mag would be an asset - but I don't think it's good..I'm sure you're right - but I doubt I'm the only one who finds the mag disappointing and/or a waste of time. It really is out of date, old fashioned, clunky, dull and amateurish. It might be interesting to survey the membership on the subject.nteresting - I wonder when that was, what sort of questions were asked, and what the figures were?Off the top of my head... The feel of the mag is old fashioned and although I'm over 70 myself, sometimes I think it's aimed at average readers even older than me! Lots of historical photos & articles with pics of Fred Bloggs flying his steam-powered Clodhopper in 1947 - that kind of thing. The fairly regular coverage of social events with elderly/old blokes in DJs handing one another trophies and certificates - it's not the sort of thing I ever associated with flying model aeroplanes, frankly, and I don't want to read about it. (I did buy a DJ myself in the 1970s, a cunning plan to impress a girl. Never wore it after 1978...) The amateurish and deeply unamusing cartoon inside the front page - if nothing more professional and funny is available, scrap it. I've done lots of writing (freelance) and editing in my time - many of the articles are too long, disjointed, and badly need editing. I mean, people lament that too few youngsters get into this hobby, and it could be that one look at the magazine helps to put them off - despite there being a few pictures of young modellers. Added to that, the mag seems very definitely aimed at long-experienced modellers - those old blokes in DJs, probably - and much of it passes over my head since I hadn't built a flying model aircraft in around half a century when I joined BMFA. There could be fewer photos - but bigger images spread across big chunks of the page, maybe a full DPS even, good quality images too. Yes, I'm a former pro photographer and not everyone can produce the goods, but there are an awful lot of modellers out there with good cameras producing huge file sizes, so... The technical articles tend to be esoteric, specialised - need more "intro to" articles, covering basics, features on individual model builds - that sort of thing. I could go on, but...Peter, thanks - I'm actually aware of the value of the BMFA in the respects you mention, and I didn't mean to belittle it. I was trying simply to emphasise my comparative lack of interest in the magazine, other finctions of the BMFA being in my view considerably more important. My post was really about the magazine, and my opinion of its quality.Thanks Peter, but as a freelance photographer and journalist, I'm retired - and I have far too much going on in my life to take on what you suggest! In the past I edited (voluntarily) the magazine of a national angling club, and it took up a lot of my time - in fact a big chunk of my spare time. As a tyro I doubt my input would be well received anyway - and I spend a few months each year abroad... I'm glad you appreciate the BMFA magazine, but I don't think it's terribly good, and it's not why I got back into aero-modelling after a very long time away.

 

 

 

Now if Tony had put as much time and effort into a constructive article, 789 word count is a good starting point for an article, however It would be so pointless no one would have read it, and I could go away from slamming the door on my head .?, when I put this into word count spelling and grammar came out as college student not Journalist?

 

In the meantime I shall go on reading cover to cover and enjoy the magazine for what it is and continue to thank those that put their time in to the fine magazine that it is.

Edited by Jason Channing
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On 28/01/2022 at 17:22, kc said:

Of course I knew someone would say that!    Frankly if I lived in the Leicester area and I was a lot younger then I possibly might.......but really it needs to be a serious challenge from a person who has knowledge of how the BMFA works..    I am sure there would be plenty of other suitable candidates amongst the membership but by giving only 28 days notice there is really no chance for anybody except an insider to prepare support.  

If the BMFA really want to attract younger members ( one of the Members Director's tasks) then surely one of the best ways to improve how the BMFA seems to youngsters would be to ban any photos of people wearing dinner jackets!    Is there anything more outdated and bound to put youngsters off than photo after photo of people wearing a uniform just to have a meal and accept a trophy!   

 

 

What do younger members want K.C ?

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It's been said before that authorities like the CAA have taken much more notice of the BMFA for being a national controlling body because they act like other sizeable representative associations and the one thing they all have in common is regular communication with their members usually through print media. For this reason alone it seems worth it to keep up the appearance of a responsible organisation worth listening to.

Having said that I would be more than willing to receive mine in electronic form.

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I think the last time the issue of making the magazine electronic was raised it turned out that a significant percentage of members were not on line.  The situation might be different today.  Having an electronic magazine would save a lot of money - no print or distribution costs.

 

You still would need to deal with those who do not wish to give the BMFA their email address but I think that is also being dealt with through the new membership scheme and the need to register with the CAA.  

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I think that we might be forgetting that a sizeable proportion of the membership don't fly RC models.  The indoor, free flight and control line members contribute equally to the insurance pot and might argue that they subsidise us to a meaningful extent.  They are possibly more likely to be competition minded and the number of articles submitted to the magazine may well reflect this interest - although a quick scan of the latest issue shows a massive bias towards RC related disciplines - probably a seasonal variation?.

 

There has been mention that the magazine should have regular "how to" guides for beginners.  If this were the case, how long would it take for the membership to get bored rigid by repeats of the same information.  Isn't this where publications like "Up and Away" and the handbook come in?

 

Yes, much of the content is of passing interest to me, but it doesn't detract from the magazine's value in passing on important developments to the whole membership.  A couple of black and white printed sheets of text could convey this information but for many members, a colour magazine must be more tempting to open and at least leaf through.

 

Also, remember that this is not a magazine written by professional journalists and intended to be sold to the public - it's a glorified club newsletter, reliant on members' contributions and from my viewpoint as an ordinary member, I think it fulfils that purpose more than adequately as well as providing an indication of the credibility of the BMFA as a national representative body.  It's attractive enough to many businesses to invest in advertising, which I'd like to think should offset a reasonable proportion of its production cost.

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6 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

I think that we might be forgetting that a sizeable proportion of the membership don't fly RC models.  The indoor, free flight and control line members contribute equally to the insurance pot and might argue that they subsidise us to a meaningful extent.  They are possibly more likely to be competition minded and the number of articles submitted to the magazine may well reflect this interest - although a quick scan of the latest issue shows a massive bias towards RC related disciplines - probably a seasonal variation?.

 

There has been mention that the magazine should have regular "how to" guides for beginners.  If this were the case, how long would it take for the membership to get bored rigid by repeats of the same information.  Isn't this where publications like "Up and Away" and the handbook come in?

 

Yes, much of the content is of passing interest to me, but it doesn't detract from the magazine's value in passing on important developments to the whole membership.  A couple of black and white printed sheets of text could convey this information but for many members, a colour magazine must be more tempting to open and at least leaf through.

 

Also, remember that this is not a magazine written by professional journalists and intended to be sold to the public - it's a glorified club newsletter, reliant on members' contributions and from my viewpoint as an ordinary member, I think it fulfils that purpose more than adequately as well as providing an indication of the credibility of the BMFA as a national representative body.  It's attractive enough to many businesses to invest in advertising, which I'd like to think should offset a reasonable proportion of its production cost.

 

Agreed, then all the comments written over the last 3 pages would be several months worth of newsletters. At the risk of repeating myself...if some members don’t like what’s written, send something in to be published. 

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On 29/01/2022 at 05:05, Rich Griff said:

In New Zealand I think, you have to vote, you don't have to in this country.....

 

Take that the right way, apply what you glean...we won't get fooled again, good song !

This concerns me, as a New Zealand citizen, and resident, for over 40 years, I'm not aware of any aspect of society here where I "have to vote". Can you provide me detail so I can be sure to do so next time, lest I find myself in trouble for not doing so? The fact you posted it twice suggests it is an important matter. Thanks.

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10 hours ago, Andy Stephenson said:

It's been said before that authorities like the CAA have taken much more notice of the BMFA for being a national controlling body because they act like other sizeable representative associations and the one thing they all have in common is regular communication with their members usually through print media. For this reason alone it seems worth it to keep up the appearance of a responsible organisation worth listening to.

Having said that I would be more than willing to receive mine in electronic form.

Agree with your comments Andy. The magazine is what it is and we all get a copy to either read avidly from cover to cover, or as I believe most members do, read the editorial and news items and then perhaps an article or two of particular interest, flick through the pictures and then leave it at that.  A large proportion will simply go unread, which is a waste.

I'd be happy and would prefer to get the BMFA News as a download. Why not give the choice to opt out of the hard copy at renewal time, have it automatically emailed out, therefore  saving print and postage costs and raising our green credentials by cutting down on waste to say nothing of cost to the organisation.  British Drone Flyers Membership comes with their version of the BMFA News emailed to them for down load as is the BMFA News itself, so the mechanism to give BMFA news readers an on-line only option is surely already there. https://britishdroneflyers.org/news Another tick box alongside the one for the optional Discount Card, perhaps?

I've read the current BDF magazines over the last couple of days, and although I'm not a drone flyer and will be hardly likely to go down that route in any serious manner, I found the magazine articles informative, useful and easy reading - all without the considerable cost of printing and posting them to me.

Edited by Cuban8
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In New Zealand I think, you have to vote, you don't have to in this country.....

 

Take that the right way, apply what you glean...we won't get fooled again, good song !

 

Every time I click the reply button this post comes up ??

 

Sorry, though it was New Zealand, it's not, it's Australia ( and Belgium apparently ), please don't take offence, a simple mistake is all...

 

In this country you don't have to vote.

 

Someone was mentioning about a vote/ poll about bmfa mag...

 

Hard copy for me please, no land line, no internet, doing this on stand alone internet phone.

 

Paper mag, no batteries needed etc..

 

If I had to pay say £1 extra to get a hard copy for the whole year, then so be it.

 

Cover price in bmfa mag is £1.25...per copy

 

I suspect people would buy one copy....then not bother.

 

Keep it a hard copy and free to members please.

 

An opt out of a hard copy with a membership discount would mean the hard copy would die...unless the mag is produced and funded by advertising...

 

How many bmfa members are there now ?

 

Every member will see and advert, will they buy because of it ?

 

I hate all the adverts popping up all the time when using internet.

 

The internet is great at advertising, they pop up in milliseconds, yet you wait ages for the internet content you waiting for/ want to see...

 

But that's for a different thread...

Edited by Rich Griff
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1 hour ago, Cuban8 said:

The magazine is what it is and we all get a copy to either read avidly from cover to cover, or as I believe most members do, read the editorial and news items and then perhaps an article or two of particular interest, flick through the pictures and then leave it at that.  A large proportion will simply go unread, which is a waste.

 

There was a survey of the Membership in 2020 to which 10,500 Members responded. A summary of the results was published in the Feb 2021 edition of the magazine. It included for the magazine:

I generally read most of it: 54%
I occasionally read some of it: 21%
I always read it cover to cover: 20%
I generally don’t bother to read it: 5%

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1 hour ago, John Lee said:

There was a survey of the Membership in 2020 to which 10,500 Members responded. A summary of the results was published in the Feb 2021 edition of the magazine. It included for the magazine:

I generally read most of it: 54%
I occasionally read some of it: 21%
I always read it cover to cover: 20%
I generally don’t bother to read it: 5%

Was this a self selecting survey? If so then those who responded were the ones who read the mag, or some of it, as there was no option to say it was binned unopened.

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