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Has flying got easier ?


john stones 1 - Moderator
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14 hours ago, Simon Chaddock said:

The ability to "think through" a problem is a vital human attribute.

But don't you think technology has complicated things to such an extent it is quite often un-intelligible to most humans - of a certain age especially. Before computer radios, control surface reversal didn't take too long to figure out...these days you need a PHD in computer science to even understand how to get the firmware on the device.

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10 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said:

But don't you think technology has complicated things to such an extent it is quite often un-intelligible to most humans - of a certain age especially. Before computer radios, control surface reversal didn't take too long to figure out...these days you need a PHD in computer science to even understand how to get the firmware on the device.

TBH, that's the main issue that I've got with some of your posts which seek to minimise the potential impact of RID by describing inexpensive solutions available from AliExpress or similar, which might be cheap but, from the posts , are shrouded in several layers of complex jargon and programming capability not possessed by the average flyer.

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24 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

TBH, that's the main issue that I've got with some of your posts which seek to minimise the potential impact of RID by describing inexpensive solutions available from AliExpress or similar, which might be cheap but, from the posts , are shrouded in several layers of complex jargon and programming capability not possessed by the average flyer.

 Why is it an issue to you?.   There are many, many threads on here which I have no interest in but it doesn't create an issue for me. 


The 'complex jargon' to which you refer is what exactly?.... solder 4 bits of wire between these terminals and shrink wrap it?    hardly technical nor jargonistic.

 

If you have never looked at an ESP32 before then there will be a small learning curve but you are not writing the code, you are just following a few simple steps to flash the processor.... something 'the average flyer' seems to do on a regular basis these days.

 

I think you are overstating the impact RiD will (probably) have, I think it is plainly obvious to all and sundry that it cant possibly achieve any of its stated aims and it is a knee jerk reaction to what is essentially a trivial non-problem. However, it is coming, for those that have an interest the solution might well be a minor outlay and a tiny inconvenience, for those with a 'head in the sand' attitude it will no doubt be costlier.

 

If what I post is causing 'an issue' for you I suggest you don't read them but there are others that have expressed an interest in following along and it is, after all, a public forum with an 'e' in the title..

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3 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said:

 Why is it an issue to you?.   There are many, many threads on here which I have no interest in but it doesn't create an issue for me. 


The 'complex jargon' to which you refer is what exactly?.... solder 4 bits of wire between these terminals and shrink wrap it?    hardly technical nor jargonistic.

 

If you have never looked at an ESP32 before then there will be a small learning curve but you are not writing the code, you are just following a few simple steps to flash the processor.... something 'the average flyer' seems to do on a regular basis these days.

 

I think you are overstating the impact RiD will (probably) have, I think it is plainly obvious to all and sundry that it cant possibly achieve any of its stated aims and it is a knee jerk reaction to what is essentially a trivial non-problem. However, it is coming, for those that have an interest the solution might well be a minor outlay and a tiny inconvenience, for those with a 'head in the sand' attitude it will no doubt be costlier.

 

If what I post is causing 'an issue' for you I suggest you don't read them but there are others that have expressed an interest in following along and it is, after all, a public forum with an 'e' in the title..

I'm very interested in the topic, but I get a bit fed up of being told that it's a non-issue because it just needs soldering a few wires to a bit of cheap kit from Aliexpress and then a screed of complex semi-instructions about burning firmware to various devices and configuring those home-assembled bits of kit. I consider the foolhardy implementation of mandatory onboard RID is likely to have the most significant impact, in terms of numbers of model flyers giving up the hobby on the basis that it is a bridge too far for them.

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26 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

I'm very interested in the topic, but I get a bit fed up of being told that it's a non-issue because it just needs soldering a few wires to a bit of cheap kit from Aliexpress and then a screed of complex semi-instructions about burning firmware to various devices and configuring those home-assembled bits of kit. I consider the foolhardy implementation of mandatory onboard RID is likely to have the most significant impact, in terms of numbers of model flyers giving up the hobby on the basis that it is a bridge too far for them.

Same here, I have made 27 mhz receivers etc, and repaired CB sets long ago, but getting old, fiddling with tiny wires with a shaking soldering iron wearing glasses over a magnifying glass isn't an option, I would ( if needed ) buy one, but if it so cheap and easy why don't these 'wizz kids' make them and sell them ?.

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25 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Same here, I have made 27 mhz receivers etc, and repaired CB sets long ago, but getting old, fiddling with tiny wires with a shaking soldering iron wearing glasses over a magnifying glass isn't an option, I would ( if needed ) buy one, but if it so cheap and easy why don't these 'wizz kids' make them and sell them ?.

The answer to that one is easy, the type of person who has the ability to write the firmware are not interested in wasting their time making them and flogging them for a few quid and then have to deal with all the numpties that screw them up..... been there and done that (in a very minor way) They are prepared however to release their work on  a free to use and modify license because it on the backs of others that they amass the knowledge that get them where they are now.

 

Once the regulations have been decided upon who can say who will be making them on the side? I know I wont be!

 

How tiny do you think these wires are?   We are not talking PCB track repair here, I am as ham fisted as they come and half blind but can still make reasonable solder connections. I would think most people who play with toy planes still would be the same.

 

It is simple, it is just an ESP and a gps module (at the moment), it is just 4 wires and a bit of heatshrink but it's ok if you have no interest in building something and prefer to buy a commercial one instead, get ready to grab your ankles, it's coming.

 

Edited by FlyinFlynn
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59 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

in terms of numbers of model flyers giving up the hobby on the basis that it is a bridge too far for them.

I doubt it will eventually have any significant impact, this functionality will be mandated to be built into the model by the manufacturers before importation and the only requirement made of the end user will be registration on a website with an associated test.. the RiD itself will have no impact.

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2 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said:

But don't you think technology has complicated things to such an extent it is quite often un-intelligible to most humans - of a certain age especially. Before computer radios, control surface reversal didn't take too long to figure out...these days you need a PHD in computer science to even understand how to get the firmware on the device.

The short answer to your point is that "No, it hasn't become inintelligible.  It just requires you to do one of two things.  Work out what you want to achieve and find out how to achieve it.

Control reversal is one of the easiest to achieve in my opinion and I cannot see why you have difficulty with that yet are happy to solder various leads to terminals.

I use JR equipment and it may be JR has a better user interface than your Tx.  It takes 4 button pushes for me.

1.  Select main menu

2.  Select Reverse Sw

3.  Scroll to relevant servo (JR hepfully names the servo e.g. THRO or RAIL (for right aileron) and click on it to reverse the servo.

4.  Click to exit.

 

I agree that not all Tx manuals are helpfully written and sometimes don't tell you.what is useful about a particular function.  But picking servo reversing as being complicated is quite wrong.

 

Once you have got your mind around what you want to achieve, mixing is also pretty simple.  As en example, most of Chris Foss designs have a powerful secondary effect of rudder i.e. roll in rudder direction.  If you want to use rudder for slow rolls you need to mix out the rudder induced roll.  You do this by mixing opposite aileron to rudder.  It needs a bit of testing to get the amount of mix right so a case of fly, land, tweak and fly.  For my Wot 4, with the mix switched in the aircraft now just yaws but doesn't roll.

 

It really isn'tbthat difficult.  However, if you know nothing about how an arroplane flies and nothing about how to use a computer radio there are plenty of on-line resources to help you.  Failing that, post on this forum and you will get help.

 

It really isn't that difficult.  I'm 73 by the way.

 

ALSO, PLEASE CAN WE KEEP RID OUT OF THIS THREAD?

 

Edited by Peter Jenkins
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22 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said:

The short answer to your point is that "No, it hasn't become inintelligible.  It just requires you to do one of two things.  Work out what you want to achieve and find out how to achieve it.

Control reversal is one of the easiest to achieve in my opinion and I cannot see why you have difficulty with that yet are happy to solder various leads to terminals.

I use JR equipment and it may be JR has a better user interface than your Tx.  It takes 4 button pushes for me.

1.  Select main menu

2.  Select Reverse Sw

3.  Scroll to relevant servo (JR hepfully names the servo e.g. THRO or RAIL (for right aileron) and click on it to reverse the servo.

4.  Click to exit.

 

I agree that not all Tx manuals are helpfully written and sometimes don't tell you.what is useful about a particular function.  But picking servo reversing as being complicated is quite wrong.

 

Once you have got your mind around what you want to achieve, mixing is also pretty simple.  As en example, most of Chris Foss designs have a powerful secondary effect of rudder i.e. roll in rudder direction.  If you want to use rudder for slow rolls you need to mix out the rudder induced roll.  You do this by mixing opposite aileron to rudder.  It needs a bit of testing to get the amount of mix right so a case of fly, land, tweak and fly.  For my Wot 4, with the mix switched in the aircraft now just yaws but doesn't roll.

 

It really isn'tbthat difficult.  However, if you know nothing about how an arroplane flies and nothing about how to use a computer radio there are plenty of on-line resources to help you.  Failing that, post on this forum and you will get help.

 

It really isn't that difficult.  I'm 73 by the way.

 

ALSO, PLEASE CAN WE KEEP RID OUT OF THIS THREAD?

 

No need to shout. The question of the thread is "Has flying got easier" and part of the answer to that is clearly going to be affected by what happens with RID,  where actually being able to fly legally, under certain circumstances, may well get a lot more complicated and/or expensive.

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1 hour ago, Peter Jenkins said:

and I cannot see why you have difficulty with that yet

 

I didn't say I had a problem with servo reversing, I said -

 

4 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said:

these days you need a PHD in computer science to even understand how to get the firmware on the device.

 

..which is something of an exaggeration just to make the point that before computer radios reversing a control surface throw was simple to achieve and now you need to possess a far greater level of understanding to achieve the same result.  

 

1 hour ago, Peter Jenkins said:

  If you want to use rudder for slow rolls you need to mix out the rudder induced roll

 

Why? Have you lost the ability to move your rudder stick yourself? It used to be one of the main sources of satisfaction being able to master these things yourself. I used to love doing rolling circuits and got immense satisfaction when exiting the maneuverer on the same plane and elevation as I started it.  Nowadays the satisfaction seems to come from being able to program a computer radio to fly the darned plane for you.

 

Is your spell checker also 73. ;-)

 

1 hour ago, leccyflyer said:

may well get a lot more complicated and/or expensive.

......or not 😉

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