Aspen 2 Fuel Increased oil content

[Andy J]

Have an unused 7 year old 5l container of Aspen 2 two stroke fuel which according to the label is pre-mixed at a value of 50:1.  I want to use this for my newly acquired DLE35RA, but struggling with the maths regarding how much extra oil is needed to achieve the correct mixture of 30:1. Sure I did ratios at primary school but that was 60years ago and a lot of basic maths has been lost in the depths of time!

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

5 litres 2% = 10 ml of oil,

5 litres 3% = 15ml of oil,

it's missing 5ml of oil

[William Macleod]

I just bought a Model with Dla 35ra fitted and was planning to use the aspen 2 as it comes in the container.

Bill

Edited March 1, 2022 by William Macleod

[Richard Wills 2]

6 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

5 litres 2% = 10 ml of oil,

5 litres 3% = 15ml of oil,

it's missing 5ml of oil

5 litres at 50:1 is 98ml of oil

5 litres at 30:1 is 161ml of oil

 

Adding 60 ml will get you to near as needs be 30:1.  If it was me I would probably run it as it comes also.

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I still think in gallons but Isn’t 1% of 5000ml 50ml?

 

Therefore I think your figures should be 100/150/50…

 

As I don’t know if the figures are by weight or volume I won’t endorse the recommendation!

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

66.5 ml extra.

[Andy J]

Next issue is measuring such a small amount.

 

 

[Jon H]

I would not recommend adding oil to aspen as the oil you add may be incompatible with the oil already in the fuel. This can cause more lubrication issues than just leaving it alone. 

 

I have used the aspen 2 straight out of the pot on all of my laser petrol development and we have had no rod failures even with bushed big ends. I also use it in my chainsaw and strimmer which call for 40:1 on the label, neither of them have died either although i am not a heavy user of those. In either case, the oil in aspen fuel is very good and i know others have run dle engines on it at 50:1. 

 

If you want to run 35:1 then pick up the blue aspen 4 (no oil at all) and mix to your required ratio. 

[Mike T]

This may seem a bit radical, but how about:

 

https://aspenfuel.co.uk/contact/

[Jon H]

48 minutes ago, Mike T said:

This may seem a bit radical, but how about:

 

https://aspenfuel.co.uk/contact/

 

Its a good shout. I have spoken with them many times and find them generally very helpful

[Peter Jenkins]

3 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

I still think in gallons but Isn’t 1% of 5000ml 50ml?

 

Therefore I think your figures should be 100/150/50…

 

As I don’t know if the figures are by weight or volume I won’t endorse the recommendation!

Hi Martin

 

The issue is if you have 5000 cc of the mixed petroil, then you will actually have 98 ml of oil in the 5,000 cc in the can.  If you added 100 cc to 5000 cc you would get 5100 cc.  Now 5000 / 5100 = 98% so I'd agree with Richard Wills 2.

 

Peter

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

No argument Peter - I was only pointing out the factor of 10 error in the earlier post and Richard’s (accurate) post overlapped mine. I should perhaps have been more explicit instead of being lazy and not bothering to work out the percentages!

[Peter Jenkins]

Martin

 

You were quite right.  That was, as you say, out by an order of magnitude.

[Andy J]

Well words of caution are a bit late as just added 60ml of a synthetic 2 stroke oil to the Aspen fuel container so will see what happens when I try to start the engine. Have to acquire a spinner before I can proceed as don't fancy sticking my fingers in such a large prop.

[Jon H]

30 minutes ago, Andy Joyce said:

so will see what happens when I try to start the engine

 

I dont wish to be insulting, but this sort of thing leaves me banging my head against the wall. 

 

Lets look at it logically. 

 

You have a brand new engine worth around 300 quid bolted to perhaps another £500-1000 worth of model? You have a 7 year old home brew fuel using mixed oils with unknown compatibility, and with questions being asked as to the mathematics on oil quantity so you dont even know exactly what you have. 

 

Are you really sure starting the engine up and seeing what happens is wise? If it was an old nail of an engine then its worth a punt, but for a brand new motor why not just do things properly and get the right fuel with the right oil at the right ratio. 

 

For the sake of a new gallon of fuel and few drops of oil does it really make sense to risk loosing a new engine and the model its bolted to? 

 

 

 

 

[Andy J]

4 minutes ago, Jon - Laser Engines said:

 

I dont wish to be insulting, but this sort of thing leaves me banging my head against the wall. 

 

Lets look at it logically. 

 

You have a brand new engine worth around 300 quid bolted to perhaps another £500-1000 worth of model? You have a 7 year old home brew fuel using mixed oils with unknown compatibility, and with questions being asked as to the mathematics on oil quantity so you dont even know exactly what you have. 

 

Are you really sure starting the engine up and seeing what happens is wise? If it was an old nail of an engine then its worth a punt, but for a brand new motor why not just do things properly and get the right fuel with the right oil at the right ratio. 

 

For the sake of a new gallon of fuel and few drops of oil does it really make sense to risk loosing a new engine and the model its bolted to? 

 

 

 

 

Bit illogical Jon, if the manufacturer says a higher oil content you seem quite happy to run engines on a far lesser amount. 

 

Possible that the oil added will not mix well with the Aspen type but would think this is a far lesser risk than running an engine with a lower oil mixture than recommended.  Additional oil added was fully synthetic which is the type in the Aspen fuel.

 

Also engine is not new so expect the bearings to have some degree of float.

[Andy J]

A quick search on Google would indicate that mixing different brands of synthetic oil is not a risk as suggested by some.

[Alan Gorham_]

I think the DLE manual suggests using a petroleum (ie mineral) based oil for break in rather than synthetic.

[Ron Gray]

How much is 5 lit of the stuff, £25?, personally I would have bought a new lot! But the Aspen 'site gives information about mixing more oil with Aspen

 

@Alan Gorham_ OP has stated that the engine is not new, only new to him, even so £25 is cheap in comparison.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ron Gray

[Jon H]

If you read my comments Andy you would see that i recommended using the 'right fuel with the right oil at the right ratio' and while i know others have run their dle engines on 50:1 you will note i never recommended it and instead gave you required information on how to achieve the right ratio. so there's that. 

 

As for oil compatibility, it matters. Not all oils are the same especially when it comes to synthetics and they do not always mix well together. Your google search likely came up with the same answer as mine and it related specifically to motor oil in cars which use pressurised oil systems. the article also stated that it was still not a good idea to mix them as they will not operate at their best. 

 

On the engine's newness i read your 'newly acquired' to mean it was new, so fair enough its not brand new. But when it comes to your bearings, if they 'float' they are shot and need to be replaced anyway. and in the case of a two stroke with the construction of the dle its the piston which is likely to suffer lubrication issues if there are any. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Jon - Laser Engines

[Alan Hilton]

6 hours ago, Richard Wills 2 said:

5 litres at 50:1 is 98ml of oil

5 litres at 30:1 is 161ml of oil

 

Adding 60 ml will get you to near as needs be 30:1.  If it was me I would probably run it as it comes also.

 

That’s what I made it , there isn’t a law of conservation of volume so it’s not an exact science .Adding 100 ccs of oil to 5000 ccs of petrol doesn’t have to give 5100 ccs of 2 stroke 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

7 hours ago, Richard Wills 2 said:

5 litres at 50:1 is 98ml of oil

5 litres at 30:1 is 161ml of oil

 

Adding 60 ml will get you to near as needs be 30:1.  If it was me I would probably run it as it comes also.

 

opps missing a "0",, I did mean CC's,, getting old and senile.

[Andrew Calcutt]

I use it straight from container,I have never had any issues with the 50:1.if you add some more oil how can you be sure if it’s the same oil that’s already in it.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

When I buy an item from some firm or other, I tend to follow the warranty, no real saving running a weaker oil content than recommended, and I've no reason to doubt their advice or as yet had any reason to ignore it, best opinion to listen to in my experience, is the makers and the engines, I ignore the rest.

[Andy J]

Just as a final footnote to this thread, I finally got round to test running the engine yesterday in the garden using my modified Aspen 2 fuel.  An initial problem was that  my starter had insufficient friction grip on the spinner so had to resort to hand swinging. Was amazed to find it was very easy to start even though the fuel is very old, so it certainly has not lost its volatility with time.

Well impressed with the DLE 35RA performance,  smooth thoteling and amazingly slow tick over once the slow running jet was set correctly.