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46 minutes ago, john davidson 1 said:

Recent models include scratch built EE Lightning, twin fan Phantom, they really perform and get the adrenalin going. If they crash it only costs £6 in depron and the gubbins can be recycled into  another.

I'm not sure what this has got to do with my quoted post, John.

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14 minutes ago, john davidson 1 said:

Recent models include scratch built EE Lightning, twin fan Phantom, they really perform and get the adrenalin going. If they crash it only costs £6 in depron and the gubbins can be recycled into  another.

You're not wrong John - the launch of the Lightning yesterday evening was almost vertical and the model just continued that trajectory, straight up, like a rocket. Performance with a capital P! ?

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6 hours ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

Maybe they (and posdibly their parents) simply don't want to engage with a cantankerous old man who is willing to write them all off so readily, like much of the over-indulged, blinkered boomer generation is wont to do. 

 

Honey and flies, pressures of modern life, things change etc, etc. 

I don't know Brian personally, but I feel that I "know" him from the magazines and from what I have seen, he has been a long time promoter of this hobby to young people, dedicating a large amount of his time to the providing of trial flights, model building, tuition, demonstrating how much fun is to be had. His Dennis The Menace style flying garb has been famous in this hobby for at least 20 years in that context. I am not seeing his comments as writing anybody off and his efforts to promote the hobby should be commended.

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There is obviously no right or wrong answer to the original themes, which you are all developing.

 

Yes, there are many more things that people, particularly the young can do with their time, than in my youth. In the days of rationing, no Tv and so on. I remember the days when people just looked out of their flats windows, many not even having a Radio, have been bombed out of accommodation (cities completely flattened).. Today we sit at street cafes (particularly on the continent) people watching, with a glass, maybe wine, a beer, and cake. Not a lot really changes in some respects. Although it seems to.

 

I also agree that for the UK, there is little opportunity to manufacture models, be it kits or ARTF. Yet this has been the case for a long time. Globalisation is part of the issue, yet not the complete story, there has been manufacturers in Europe, of engines and kits. Again the story is not simple. I have noted there are a seemingly largish number of enthusiasts in the UK, laser/ routing kits, engines, although I suspect non hope to make a fortune, perhaps even a living, a hobby.

 

I note that the BMFA is endeavouring to restructure, I suspect at least in part to be ahead of a future that is anticipated.

 

I have no intention of spending +£300-400 on a model, it is the low cost models for me. I do not begrudge that others will. I remain questing where is the hobby going in the UK.

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I recently bought enough balsa to build again two models which symbolised the golden age of modelling for me (perhaps 1985-1995?) and that was at least a 50% increase in price since my last similar order in 2020. I suspect that this may well be the last time. Spending upwards of £100 on a few sheets of wood to make an average sport model is becoming difficult to justify.

I'm not a luddite particularly, but I get a good 50% of my enjoyment from this hobby from crafting something in wood and for all the advances in the hobby in recent years, my ability to enjoy the hobby is reducing and I can't really see myself becoming enthused about buying or flying nothing but mass produced rtfs. So I'll make my balsa models whilst I can, keep them intact as long as I can and be sure to wear my rose tinted flying specs and when they finally bite the dust and there's no more balsa to buy, no more covering to choose and no more wire to bend, I'll sit in my armchair with my old copies of Radio Modeller and RCM&E, drink tea from a tartan thermos, sniff my last sheet of balsa and lose myself in those halcyon days gone by.

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The BMFA, along with many other related 'hobby' groups need to put pressure where it could really benefit youngsters and their future.

 

Get them added to the education system early on in schools. I don't know what youngsters are taught in schools these days, but it doesn't seem to include using their hands to actually make physical things. Now it seem the nearest thing to that is use a keyboard to get some remote device to make things.

Our hobby, and I  have also been in it for over 60 years too, taught me so many things from mechanical, electrical, and electronic, to thinking for my self,  deigning and making things, (long time scratch builder), and even helped me get/change jobs on some occasions by putting it on my CV.

 

Ray.

school1.jpg.6cf8c5a3f9f71d6b0efc3f6481df85f4.jpg

 

The railway embankment ( disused L.N.E.R.)also became our slope soaring site, great fun back in the 50's, our school model group.

 

 

Edited by eflightray
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A lot of effort has gone into introducing young people into model making, by more people, methods than you can shake a stick at.

 

My local BMFA area has a fund for STEM support. Individuals have gone into schools to introduce youngsters into the fun and creativity of modelling. The club where I am a member goes and supports various local themed events.

 

There is limited success, not multitudes coming forward at the end of the day. Enough to maintain club viability.

 

I do not believe the glasses are rose tinted, there is a pleasure from creating things, at all times. There are high lights which we often try to replicate.

 

A previous post has mentioned the possibility of a wholesaler ceasing to trade. This is something which will happen, as most things come and go. What I have thought about is why and what it might mean. Graupner was a shock to me, always quality, at a price, bit like a Rolex in some respects.

 

 

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Yes things have got more expensive. RTF models of normal trainer size seem to me to have gone up in price over the past couple of years.However I don't find that I am being priced out of the hobby. I Have two sets of good radio gear. I have a fair selection of engines. I do not buy ARTF models but  build from plans. This can take up to 18 months buying supplies as I go along which spreads the cost. Selling off older models to fund new ones helps  to keep costs down. 

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In terms of companies ceasing to trade, I think its true to say that we have lost many more than we have gained, certainly in the arena of kit manufacturers. 

That said, there were quite a lot of pretty ropey kits on the market back in the 70s, 80s and 90s, lots of clones of popular designs rushed out and sold for a few months, only to disappear again,so it wasn't all sunshine. But when you think of the quite big names which have vanished or stopped producing kits, it is quite telling. 

What we have now are a number of large producers of mostly rtf foamy stuff and a few niche manufacturers taking advantage of the availability of cnc cutting and 3D printing to produce short kits without needing large premises, jigs, moulds and machinery, as well as being able to market and talk to/engage/sell directly to the customer online. That is a great boon to the "cottage industry" who would previously have had to find and fund distributors, advertising, promotion etc to get products into model shops and adverts into magazines, so that's one positive change. 

 

Edited by Matt Carlton
Clarity
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We held our "Journée Découverte de lAeromodelisme" or Aeromodelling Discovery Day yesterday. We had targeted the local colleges. Nobody turned up except a local baker who used to fly in the Eighties and had somehow found out about us. Mind you it rained for much of the day.

 

I have long since concluded that traditional aeromodelling has no appeal for the younger generation which is why so many of my club members are in their sixties or older. Over the last few years, my club has increased its membership but most new members are retired beginners or people like the baker returning to the hobby. We apparently have a good reputation for encouraging these new members because several have chosen to join us rather than to join clubs which are nearer to their homes. I believe that we have about thirty-five members in the club; one is in his thirties, and two are in their forties, the rest are older. We used to have a couple of lads who were still at school and who learned to fly in five minutes but they don't come anymore. One of them is my neighbour. He prefers to help his sister with her mobile catering business or to go carp fishing with his grandfather. When I was a teenager I don't think that spending my leisure time with a lot of old men would have appealed very much either.

 

As for the availability of modelling product, there are a lot electric powered foamies available. I've owned a few but I've worn them out, read crashed them after lots of flights, and I've never bothered to replace them. Similarly I have custody of a Boomerang ARTF trainer which belongs to the club and I own an ARTF Acro Wot. I assembled both of these but they don't give me the same satisfaction as building a model from scratch. I am currently building a DB Sport & Scale Skyrider as a surprise present for my partner who has challenged me to finish a model in purple and pink! I get a great deal of pleasure in seeing it take shape. I also gain a great deal of satisfaction out of getting a glow engine running perfectly. I prefer the challenge of the glow engine to the reliability and cleanliness of the electric motor, but I've always been in one minority or another all my life.

 

The young have other interests and probably have to work hard to attain an acceptable standard in their SAT Tests at school if that's what they're still called. The world of work appears to be more demanding and less rewarding for most people these days so people may not have the leisure time to devote to aeromodelling. Then there's the cost of starting the hobby for newcomers...

 

The way I see it is that at seventy-four and in good health, I have five to ten years of active life left, if I'm lucky. As long as I have stocks of balsa I will carry on being the curmudgeonly traditional modeller, let the world of aeromodelling change as it may!

 

 

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I agree 100%David, and you are now in a minority of two!

Our club is exactly the same. We are on the BMFA club finder, we have an up to date web site, we have BMFA examiners, we have a clean and tidy club caravan / shop / storage - repair area and a very well maintained rural flying site. Despite all this and more, we have not signed up any "youngsters" in years. All probably 40+ or retired. We are holding our own financially, but as with most clubs by the time we have taken off our "on" costs there is not a huge amount left. We recently introduced a "Club Trainer" which has helped a lot in getting newbies on the sticks (we allow three "free" visits before they are invited to join). Then there is the cost of all the gear a newbie needs to get in the air reliably and safely. Yes, you can get some reasonable deals from e.bay etc. but what newbie really knows what they are looking for?. I helped a friend get set up recently. Good new high wing trainer, 2 x lipos, Futaba radio gear, lipo charger, checker etc. Not far off £500. As we all know, prices have shot up recently,(IF the items are in stock and not on the dreaded backorder). The older generation might just have the funds available..............but a youngster?.

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I forgot to add that one of our forty somethings is the father of three sons. He doesn't believe in spending much on the hobby. He flies time-expired patternships and his middle son who is twelve years old, flies a battered old ARTF trainer as well as a half-size Bird of Time glider which he built with his dad. A few weeks ago I noticed that his engine, a Webra 40, kept cutting out in flight. When I asked why this was the case I was told that the engine was worn out. I happened to have the identical engine fitted with an Enya carburetter and MDS Q silencer sitting in my cupboard amongst all of the other unemployed bargains. I gave it to the lad. After removing one of the baffles from the silencer the engine ran faultlessly and the lad proceeded to fly inverted circuits with his trainer! He's a better pilot than I am and I've lost count of the number of times the lad thanked me for the engine.

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Getting youngsters into the hobby has always been a challenge.   

 

The cost of the necessary equipment has traditionally been prohibitive for many - although it is arguably cheaper now in real terms than it was 50 years ago - and any keen youngsters will probably  need the financial backing of their parents or, more likely, their grandparents. ?

 

In addition to to the monetary support, a junior also needs the commitment of a parent to transport them to and from the flying field. . . It seems that modern youngsters can't go anywhere nowadays without a "helicopter" parent hovering close by. . Regrettably, many parents are not keen to give this level of commitment. 

 

So unless our keen youngster is the offspring of an existing model flyer, they will struggle to get involved. 

 

However, we can keep giving goes to the kids..... and they are always keen to have a go. ? 

Hopefully their experiences of having a go will plant a seed which will grow and might, one day, evolve into participation in the hobby/sport. 

 

We keep plugging away..... 

2136386527_CubCampFlyingExtravaganza.jpg.b64a1a034df747a9b18bce6831ff206c.jpg

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On 25/06/2022 at 11:02, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

Maybe they (and posdibly their parents) simply don't want to engage with a cantankerous old man who is willing to write them all off so readily, like much of the over-indulged, blinkered boomer generation is wont to do. 

 

Honey and flies, pressures of modern life, things change etc, etc. 

Anyone who knows the "cantankerous old man" this post refers to will be laughing out loud at this comment!  Brian has enthusiastically promoted model flying to young (and old) people for decades and although he sports less hair and what remains is somewhat greyer, his attitude to flying - and life in general - hasn't changed much since he taught me to fly models the best part of 50 years ago.

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1.   I have run an at least once weekly often twice weekly after school RC club for approaching 20 years. (I'm 74) This includes sessions at school and at my local model flying club. I therefore promote and allow 11-18 year olds to get hands on experience of Fixed Wing, Helicopters, Hovercraft, and Freestyle Multicopters.  Parents WILL happily do the taxi runs to and from the field or school, but as for sitting there bored for a couple of hours, well, no.  The Friends of the School support bigger purchases to some degree financially, for example computerised timing gear for Car and now Hovercraft racing (these are converted from multicopters and built and maintained by boys in school workshops) . I do not charge for any sessions, and most of the field flying gear is being provided at my expense, or less from donations (often from modellers who have passed away).  Recently a person in the USA sent me a donation of an FPV headset and parts at his expense inc shipping when he learned what I was doing!!

 

I have in the last couple of years brought boys into the RC flying world initially by the Freestyle Multicopter (and FPV Multicopter) route, but their interest then ALWAYS widens into the other forms of RC flying once they see and experience it. (and that includes building balsa and correx free flight gliders, no less!!)

 

SO, don't tell ME there's no interest, or that DRONES are killing the sport/hobby, been there, its not true!

 

2.   IN the Multicopter world, from about halfway through the worst of the pandemic, components for individual purchase got so difficult and so expensive that home building became more expensive than buying from a PNP/BNF business getting the benefit of buying parts and building (say) a thousand or more at once. Also true for Helicopters, too.

Its still that way and no sign of supply chains improving. ARTF fixed wing like the HK Bixler2, Wot4 Foam-E, etc are still cheaper and more durable than making from scratch, and yes, this is from direct long term experience. Does not mean that NO traditional modelling ever takes place, but you do have to enthuse, and weeks of workshop building is NOT the initial best route.

 

3. Stop whinging and stalling and GET INVOLVED, you probably all have Hangars of suitable stuff simply laying there you never use, so even if you are not prepared to actually stand up and donate your TIME, you could find someone interested and prepared to take it on and try.

 

 

 

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MMMmmmmmm.............

 

We recently arranged a static display of FW models at our local ATC. Interest on the night........negligible.

 

Responses to an invite to our club for BBQ and training on the buddy lead.........nil.

 

Arranged a visit to a large local school.............more or less the same result.

 

We certainly are not bleating about the situation, we are trying to do something about it.

 

Say no more.

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It is certainly hard trying to get the younger generation involved. Schools and maybe cubs/guide groups are an obvious target. I would be happy to approach any of these and I believe the BMFA have some starter packs for the newbies.

Its also true that only a limited number of people in any club have the time or more important the willingness to help on a REGULAR basis. I have found it is the regular commitment that is a real problem. As for the price of stuff yes it can be prohibitive for some, certainly in the current climate,

.

Now for something controversial, how about renting the airframe and radio on an hourly basis to those newcomers that cannot afford outright the gear to enjoy the hobby.

I know I have a couple of models ideal for the newcomer. You could even (whisper) give the money back when they intimate they are ready to make a purchase. (You don't have to say its a savings plan).

 

If we can get people to come along and learn maybe giving the rental route might just keep them onboard till they purchase their own gear.

 

I'll just get my tin hat and body armour

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We pondered for ages about the "club trainer" facility (who is going to fix it / look after it / charge it etc etc).

 

Luckily we were donated a reasonable model, and secondly one of our committee wanted to help more than he was by looking after all aspects of training with this model.

 

So far it has worked really well, with several potential new members having a go on the lead without spending a bean.

 

Only yesterday we were discussing the option of obtaining another trainer which would cope with higher winds.

 

We also had another member who agreed to teach gliding on the lead.

 

So far so good.

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Similar experience here - we have attended several local fetes, sometimes flying, sometimes static only.  A number of people stop for chats but not one has taken up our offer of some free 'tasters'.  Typically, we get new members from our web (thanks BMFA!) and Facebook presence.

 

Regarding age, the vast majority of our members are retired; some are 'returnees', some are new to the hobby, some are life long modellers.  We have a few juniors who are reliant in parents; a couple come with their father who also flies so are seen quite regularly; one is brought by his father whenever that's possible - a less regular attendee.

 

Over the four years I have been part of the club, membership has remained pretty stable, despite a number of members leaving for various reasons.

 

We do have a club trainer that our chairman maintains, and he does most of the training, although most of the regular fliers are more than happy to help on a buddy box, or be on hand for less experienced pilots if they need to be 'talked through' things.

 

"This will be the death of the hobby" has seemingly been an oft-uttered phrase since I started in the 70s.  Nowadays, whilst equipment is much more sophisticated, and packages that almost guarantee success are readily available, flying sites seem to be less and less available - especially for any ic power.  Unlike most clubs (I think) the number of ic powered craft is actually increasing!

 

As ever, the hobby is evolving. Am I complacent? No. Am I alarmed? No. Just aware that we need to make sure that ANY & ALL contact with prospective new members is positive, and that the field is always a harmonious and welcoming place for our members. Obviously as people are different, we're not 100% successful! But pretty much so....

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