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Scottish Aviation Pioneer


Peter  Wood
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Garry, we've just enabled image posting on the gallery, so I'm going through the thread to change your links to show the images – hope that's okay. Anyone wanting a closer look at your fine work should simply click on the images, which will launch a larger version of the image in question.
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I'm going to post a news story on the front page about it later today, but yep, just click the image button and paste in the address of your image and it should all happen automatically. Give me a shout if you have any problems.
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That's strange Antony; it shows the whole picture at this end. Even it it wasn't, the window allows me to resize it by clicking and dragging the bottom-right hand corner. Have you tried that? I presume so if you're saying it's a fixed size.
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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 months later...

Hi Chris, greetings from Toronto.

You have created a wonderful model in the Pioneer. I saw it on the cover of the RCM&E plans special and was so disappointed that it was not inside. Anyway after contacting David Ashby he kindly set me in the right direction and I've just received my back issues. Now I'm even more excited looking at the plan. Building will have to wait a few months as I have to complete some other projects including you Cap 21.

I belong to an all electric flight club so will be doing it electric style and wonder what thoughts you would have on a motor setup. I know you're an engine man but I think this design would be great if I can get as much weight forward as possible.

My other question is operating Fowler flaps and slats. I have been messing about with some card board and have developed a working hinge for the flaps that would give a progressive droop. What do you think? or is this model too small for attempting such realism. To me the model just cries out for Fowler flaps.

Jack Higgins. 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Chris, I'm starting the build on the Pioneer, had to finish TT2 first, and I'm doing it as an electric since that's what I use. In order to match the motor, prop, battery and ESC I wonder if you know what sort of RPM's you were running with your i.c. setup? Do you have any thoughts on what an ideal electric set up would be?

Thank you, Jack Higgins. 

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Hi Professor,

 Sorry I didn't reply to your earlier question on an electric build, but I didn't see it - actually I might have missed your latest one too as the automatic flag up system didn't tell me about your post, and I just happened to be trawling through the Pioneer messages this morning.

 Ref electrics.  The two stroke in my Pioneer is an ASP 46 and it makes the aircraft somewhat overpowered running at 9000 rpm;  once airborne, most flying is done on half throttle.  Pioneer is not quick, but the high lift devices really do work.   Providing your Pioneer is not too heavy a brushless motor of a rough equivqlence of a 46 will be fine.  My Pogostick design goes like a rocket on an Axi 2820/10 with a 12 x 8 prop and a bigger wing but less weight, so something  like that should do.  I'm guessing a bit, but 200-250 watts should do it.  Take the advice of the motor/ESC/battery specialists   I rate BRC Hobbies in UK as being customer friendly (www.brchobbies.co.uk), but there will be similar expertise in your neck of the woods.

 The controller will need to comfortably handle the power with a buffer for thermal safety.  Again I'm guessing a bit, but I'd go for a 35 Amp model.  As for batteries, LiPo's would be the natural choice, something like 3S to give 11.1V and at least 2500 mAh at a continuous 20 Amps.  Mind you, you may find that the weight saving of LiPo's may give you balance problems as Pioneer's nose is fairly short, especially if you are flying with the slats extended as this moves the CG forward - as I found to my cost in early test flights!  So don't forget NiMh cells which give plenty of poke, albeit with extra weight.  I'd use 9 or 10 cells.

 Hope this helps,  I'm not very expert on electrics - hopefully some others may respond too.

Chris

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Thanks Chris, that is a great help. I know the weight will be a problem as the distance in front of the CG is very short.  I will give the NiCads a good look. I'm working on the cowl now so I can se what sort of space I will have to work with. With the electric I won't have to spoil it with cutouts. My biggest problem now is where to site the battery tray so I can use the bottom hatch to change them. This compressses the cabin space so I may have to settle for a partial cabin. That's the fun and challenge of this but  I can't wipe the grin off my face so thank you for that. I appreciate the time and effort it must take to draw a plan like this.

Jack Higgins. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
http://forums.modelflying.co.uk/sites/3/images/member_albums/25798/Pioneer_4.jpg


Hi again everyone.

I finally finished my Pioneer incorporating many of the mods devised by Garry such as working struts. In fact I was so pleased with them that I couldn't bear to hide them under balsa and brown paper so left them as bare metal. Non scale but I liked them!!.

The weather today was perfect so I decided to go for its first flight. The first two attempts nearly ended in disaster as the the plane leapt into the air at a very steep angle. Aileron response was poor but the rudder was vicious. Shutting the throttle did not help at the steep angle of attack. Fortunately both haevy landings did no serious damage. On the third attempt I dailled in lots of down trim and kept the nose down until she lifted off in a more conventional manner. Having gained a safe altitude I began to experiment. The rudder is extremely strong and even inputting a couple of clicks of trim seemed to initiate a turn. Elevator was strong but manageable and the ailerons weak. At the stall it lost directional control but wallowed around rather than dropping a wing. However full power from the OS 50SX would cause it to climb very steeply and eventually go into a power stall.Consequently trimming for level flight was difficult.The landing was Ok as despit the steep glide with the trottle closed the elevator gave good flair out for a gentle touchdown.

My question now is how to manage the climbing under power. C of G and thrust line are OK so I presume the pich up is caused by the flaps. The full size would retract the slats and flaps at cruising speedavoiding the problem. I will probably mix down elevator with throttle for the next flight but would welcome ideas from anybody else who has built and flown the Pioneer.

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Hi Peter,

The model looks great. It looks like you opted not to have the slats deployed, would this cause some of the problems?

I have just completed the wings so I'm approaching the point where I have to make some decisions. I want to use working struts but I'm in a quandary as to how to fix the under carriage to the fuselage. Did you make it fixed or does it move or did you rely on the flexing of the wire to handle any up and down motion? Appreciate your input.

Jack Higgins.

PS. Glad you are having nice flying weather, our site is like the movie 'a river runs through it' and that's the path in. The last of our snow is melting off today so we hope to be able to get into the field in about a weeks time.

JH. 

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