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Member postings for Sam Longley

Here is a list of all the postings Sam Longley has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Model vs Trees
18/07/2019 19:33:17

Well I recently wrote off my Seagull extra because I did the first 90 degree of the rectangular landing approach & as I levelled out I had lost too much speed. I intended going into a glide to loose a bit of height before throttling up & turning the last 90 degrees & approach. Suddenly, without warning, it tipped a wing & spun into the ground.(From Tree top height to stay on thread titlecrook) Normally i do a circular approach & keep the power on as it is always banking. Silly mistake, but probably started in the turn because I had entered it down wind without enough throttle to start with. That being a habit from my learning days. Prompting my thread drift above.

18/07/2019 09:08:23
Posted by Peter Jenkins on 16/07/2019 23:53:09:
Posted by Sam Longley on 16/07/2019 18:50:43:
Posted by Levanter on 25/01/2019 07:38:08:

Taken to extreme and the windspeed is greater than the airspeed and the aircraft can appear to stand still or even go backwards! But we all know that is "impossible" in aerodynamic terms zo we readily accept the concept of a headwind. . It also explains the common and infamous stall on the downwind turn.

I suppose it would be too much of a thread drift to ask for you to elucidate a bit more on that onewink

The infamous stall on the downwind leg is caused by pilots thinking that a high downwind ground speed can be reduced by reducing airspeed! The result, is the infamous stall on the downwind leg.

It is quire surprising how many experienced pilots, and even an examiner on one occasion, do not understand the vital difference between air speed and ground speed.

An earlier comment by Simon Cragg falls into that category.

Where things do get confused is when you are descending through a wind gradient (that is wind speed reducing as you approach the ground - exactly like the boundary layer on the wing). In this case, you need to increase your approach speed when landing otherwise as you descend your airspeed will drop away as the speed of the block of air reduces. That is unless you have a very light foamy that immediately reacts to the change in airspeed.

Aerodynamics is not something most model pilots have studied. Where they have it tends to be at a very basic level. Some of us who post on here actually have studied aerodynamics to degree level, have done flight test courses and flew full size power and gliders. It's up to you if you wish to ignore the advice but don't complain when you end up with a broken aeroplane because you ignored the advice.

Thanks for posting that & I asked because as a yachtsman (My main hobby so I tend to get out of practice each year) I am aware of speed over ground & speed through the water caused by tidal drift. I expected the same for an RC plane in the wind

In training for my A test the instructor spent a lot of time teaching me throttle control & would get me to reduce throttle on down wind legs. I could never understand why, because if a model needs 30 mph to fly then if the wind was 10 mph it would do 20 mph up wind & need 40 mph down wind. Hence dropping back to 30 mph down wind always seemed wrong.

We had a senior examiner from the BMFA come to the club to talk about work of the BMFA & flying demonstrations were given to show various aspects of testing. He also mentioned reducing throttle on down wind legs. I was too nervous to challenge his comment at the time, as he was a senior examiner & I had not yet passed the A test. (I have now)

However. I have had several stalls & the inevitable spins just as I have turned at the downwind leg (did not happen with trainers, so problem never arose) & you really have shown me that I must try to forget the habit that I got into in my learning & make sure I open the throttle a lot quicker before starting the turn.

Thank you & sorry for the thread drift


Edited By Sam Longley on 18/07/2019 09:11:10

16/07/2019 18:50:43
Posted by Levanter on 25/01/2019 07:38:08:

Taken to extreme and the windspeed is greater than the airspeed and the aircraft can appear to stand still or even go backwards! But we all know that is "impossible" in aerodynamic terms zo we readily accept the concept of a headwind. . It also explains the common and infamous stall on the downwind turn.

I suppose it would be too much of a thread drift to ask for you to elucidate a bit more on that onewink

16/07/2019 18:47:27

A possible tip for those, like me, that seem to get attracted to trees is to have a cheap fishing pole in the kit. Mine is 9 metres long when extended & is quite stiff. Folded it is about 800mm long. I have a nice stainless steel wire prong taped to the top made from a wall tie. Mine was purchased whilst on holiday in France & cost 22 euros from a French fishing tackle shop. 9 metres along with my height gives one a considerable reach & i often do not need every section.

Seems to get borrowed at regular intervals at the club & at our yacht club as it is also good for catching stray lines up the mast.

Thread: Home Insurance
14/12/2018 13:29:05

I am insured with Hiscocks. I have public liability which does include flying model planes( plus my wife playing golf) I have had this confirmed by email

It also includes ( Because I had it added) £ 10,000 cover for items in my locked workshops except my sailing gear, winsurfing gear & my dinghy, which is covered by my sailing policy). It includes my lathe, mill, tools etc plus all modelling gear. IThis is theft but if a fire then it is included with my contents which is unlimited as is the property value. Bikes etc are covered on top of the £10K, whether in the sheds at home or away.

General excess £ 500-00 ( my choice because I do not want to loose any excess over a small claim) , Flood risk has a £2500-00 excess though

Home & contents are unlimited


Edited By Sam Longley on 14/12/2018 13:32:08

Thread: Home DIY
06/11/2018 19:06:36

Drill the steel with a sharp 8mm drill bit you wuz. Once the bit bites it will drill 8mm OK through thin steel. You will be drilling into a simple preformed steel lintol about 4-6mm thick. if it is not a concrete one. Just put your shoulder behind it & push. Get in a good position so that you are not waving the drill about like a flag at a parade.

If you just play with it so that the drill just rubs you will blunt the drill bit & harden the steel. Push it.teeth

You do not get RSJs on external walls very often & if you do they can still be drilled unless you happen to drill right on the web.

Edited By Sam Longley on 06/11/2018 19:08:05

Edited By Sam Longley on 06/11/2018 19:08:39

Thread: Throttle connection to a DLE 20
24/09/2018 15:11:00

Thanks for the pics. I had originally thought to place the throttle servo in the main area with the other items but now I have seen suggestions the idea of moving it right up to the engine opens lots more options.

Forum has come to the rescue it seems


Thanks for the note re the undercarriage. I will probably stick to my usual engine first landings to save the undercarriage from damage. I usually stick a couple of spins in to make them look more dramaticcrook

23/09/2018 13:32:27

I am fitting a DLE 20 RE to my new Seagull 90-120extra. The exit point to the throttle push rod seems, at first investigation, to come only slightly off centre line. This means that when I install the fuel tank the push rod will have to bend around it & because it moves back & forth any bends may foul the bulkheads or tank etc. A flexible plastic pushrod in a tube may have too much friction.

What i would like to do is offset the throttle somehow at the engine end & run the pushrod in a straight line down the side of the fuselage so that without any bends i can position other parts OK. Plus I will not get any flexing in the linkage that I might get with sharp bends in the line. I would rather not try to alter the throttle position on the engine & in any case that would not actually solve the problem. I cannot extend the throttle arm as it will just foul the engine mounting

May i ask if anyone has any clever solutions- perhaps a bellcrank at the engine end etc- that solves the issue. Or is it just a case of a flexible pushrod in a tube & accept the friction

Thread: Something that will bounce
28/07/2018 18:13:12
Posted by Bob Cotsford on 28/07/2018 16:47:19:

I think Sam meant that he used "4lb lead" cut as described - it's how lead flashing is designated 4lb/sq ft. The weight would be nearer 4oz than 4 lb!

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 28/07/2018 16:47:54

That is correct. Sorry if I confused the "non builders" within the forum

28/07/2018 13:33:00
Posted by trebor on 28/07/2018 08:56:38:

How much lead ? I know you can just stick the servos in the foam for less weight but I used the ply mounts. It is possible to run pull pull lines with nylon line up the fuselage for mounting servos forward, could help you out. What motor are you fitting ?

With a profile fuselage one cannot really install push pull system to the rudder because the way the servos are mounted. Ok with the elevator though

28/07/2018 08:30:19

I needed some 4 lb lead cut into discs with hole saws. I used 2 at 2 inch diameter and 3 at 1 inch diameter plus 2 6mm pan washers and a 6mm bolt. I bolted that lot as near to the nose as reasonable ( lowest front point under the motor so it acts as a buffer) with the discs clamped each side of the foam. I did this so that in a crash they would remain fixed & not move about. Plus I can release the bolt & adjust on the field easily if I wish.

i have not changed anything in the construction, servos etc, so nothing to affect c of g

C of g is now just behind the recommended forward point, ie just behind the main spar

Edited By Sam Longley on 28/07/2018 08:32:45

Edited By Sam Longley on 28/07/2018 08:33:24

27/07/2018 19:42:35

So Update

I bought the Wargo from Hobby King along with 2 Turnigy nano tech batteries.

I found one was dud so went through the hassle of getting an exchange sent. Unfortunately I was sailing when the replacement was delivered . The item was supposed to be delivered the following day but inspite of my wife being sat in the room at the front of the house at the alleged delivery time neither the battery or the note through the letter box arrived.

After 15 mins on the phone I had to waste another half day waiting & it arrived & guess what-- Yup a faulty cell.

Hobby king really can sell some carp when they try

The plane took loads of lead in the nose so perhaps I could use my normal 2200 batteries instead of the 1500 ones I intended to use. I really cannot be bothered with the hassle of wasting days waiting for deliveries so £ 13-00 wasted

However, first flight today with the single battery & i am really surprised at how well that went. I was hovering against the gentle breeze within 3 minutes & low rolls at 10 feet. Something I have never dared with my Jive

So once I get some decent batteries all should be well.

Thread: How to retain surface wires to foamy planes
19/07/2018 17:37:46

I have bought ( following tips from forumites herein) a foamie Wargo Yak 55 from HobbyKing.

The rudder & elevator servos are in the tail & the servo leads etc are on the face of the proflled fuselage.These are, at the minute, trailing loose. the esc leads are also waving in the breeze.

Can someone please advise the best way to retain the rudder & elevator leads along the fus sides. I have tried bits of tape & it just peels the paint off. I am thinking of stitching through the fuselage with thread to the wires on the oposite side every 40mm or so. is that an option?

Then when I get to the motor & ESC it is just a mess of wires. I thought of drilling holes through the fuselage & putting cable ties through to hold them & the ESC in place.

What is the best way to hold the esc. Hot melt glue just melted the foam

Any ideas greatly appreciated


Thread: Something that will bounce
11/07/2018 22:30:14
Posted by trebor on 11/07/2018 19:55:02:

I picked up one of these but the quality is no where near as good as the Edge **LINK**

With due respect. You are contradicting yourself.

On one hand you are telling me about how good a particular seagull model is then on the other you are telling me that the quality of another model is no where near as good.

That demonstrates inconsistencies in construction does it not

Furthermore, ASH suggests that perhaps the models I have seen might just have had poor glues. Well yes they did! & that was the problem- They fell apart

So if a particular manufacturer has inconsistencies across its range (within not dissimilar price ranges) then that makes it very difficult for someone like me to just go & buy a model from them with confidence - Does it not?

I know that other manufacturers have the same problems but one can buy (for instance)a Chris Foss designed plane from Ripmax,& be reasonably certain that it will stay together.(but not all other planes in the Ripmax range)

What model does one look for in the Seagull range (or any other for that matter) to give one confidence in one's purchase?

Plus, who are the good CONSISTENT manufacturers at the sub £300-00 price range in IC planes?

The fact that Pilot are happy to supply replacement wood parts FOC (plus postage) following minor prangs must give one some confidence. I do know club members with good experience of them. So that might be one. Are they priced sub £300-00?


Edited By Sam Longley on 11/07/2018 22:32:16

11/07/2018 18:29:03
Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/07/2018 17:57:16:

Of course you can work on two aspects at once - well not usually "at once" but certainly in parallel.

I guess you are looking for a 4-5Kg-ish arobat yes? Well in my experience a model that looks great and always seems to fly well is the Sbach 342. PilotRC do some excellent versions, but perhaps a little large for 20cc. But there are loads of others


Pilot are nicely built planes but, as far as I can see, the specs all show them as being for electrics. I sometimes wonder if an airframe built for electric can take the vibration of a petrol engine along with the strain of starting pressure etc

We have had some Seagull models in the club but they seem so badly built; falling apart (one in mid air) kind of puts me off them

11/07/2018 17:42:18

Looked at the reviews & vids & took Trebor's advice & have ordered the Wargo Yac 55

Thanks to everyone who chose to reply. I did not take everyone's advice, (that would be impossible me thinks!!) but I have heeded many of the comments, so they were not in vain I can assure you. --- But I have not bought a football; Tom Sharp 2

I now want a model to put my DLE 20cc engine in, to practice the IMAC, It is surprising how difficult it is to find a nice ARF that will fit the bill.

But somehow I am not sure that I dare ask for a while.I dare not risk another head chopping experience just yet. ( can one imagine the---"You cannot try 2 things at once etc etc"

Thanks all

09/07/2018 21:25:22
Posted by Tom Sharp 2 on 09/07/2018 18:57:28:

Must admit I had never heard of IMAC (though I have seen prop hanging) but I see it's all about it in the latest edition of BMFA news.

Just practicing the manouvers can be quite fun. It is better in someways than just flapping around the sky as it imposes a discipline to ones flying & improves stick & flight control. They are easy enough in themselves, but getting them clinically accurate is the difference. At least it does not take weeks to actually pull something off ,(like a 3d trick) to start with. The time is in perfecting it.

09/07/2018 21:07:43
Posted by gangster on 09/07/2018 20:48:01:

Sam. Just reading BMFA news. Seen ad for the Ruckus. Would that suit your requirements?

No! because they are not particularly cheap & having had a Riot I doubt would not be that easy to repair. It is too heavy. It is getting away from "cheepo bouncy 3d"

08/07/2018 19:34:58
Posted by Don Fry on 08/07/2018 16:00:55:

I'm 66 Sam., I was winning E boat class OD races before you could pull an halliard I suspect.

I was sailing dinghies about 4-5 years after you were borne !!!!!.

Buy a copy Of Practical Boat Owner - Summer Issue,& read pages 40-43

Shall I go on?

08/07/2018 15:40:18
Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 08/07/2018 10:19:08:

I think those comments are bit unkind Sam. You might not like what Percy is saying but he is sincerely trying to help you and he has a lot experience.

I can understand where you are coming from on this - there is a hard learning curve learning many things in our hobby and you are looking for something that might just make this learning curve a little easier - not because its easier to fly but because the consequences of getting it wrong (which we all do when learning) are bit less severe.

So, my recommendation is similar to an earlier one - get yourself a largish shockie. This time of year you can fly that outdoors - and if it is a bit windy, well that adds to the benefit! That will help your fingers learn the movements, your muscle memory will take over and eventually, as you know, you end up flying the move on instinct without thinking about it - then if it goes wong you correct automatically - without thinking - you have to reach that point. And if it all goes to hell in a handcart then the shockie will indeed just bounce. They are very hard to damage!

But something you really should think about listening to Percy on - make progress slowly, build one step on the next. Don't just "try a move", build up to it through a series of simplier moves. That's how the full size guys do it - and bear in mind if they get wong big style it isn't just the plane that gets damaged!


BEB you have summed it up but your opening sentence may be right but you need to understand that I intend to beat the 3d barrier, That is my target. Just because someone else cannot do it is no reason to say i should not & that is what got me started in my post. I did not really mean to insult Percy, Although it comes across as that.

My main hobby is sailing . I was probably sailing, & winning schoolboys races, before Percy was flying model planes.

But if someone asks advice about foiling dinghies I do not say " Buy an old gaffer because that is what I have got because I cannot sail a foiling moth" I say " sorry no experience" & leave it to others to reply"

The rest of your post is spot on. Of course I intend to move slowly but some of our older club members have told me " if you are not prepared to take the crashes then it is not for you, Go back to your boat".

Even "simpler "moves need to be learned. But having a good model for it makes a good start. No different to sailing. Hence my asking for opinion.

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