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Member postings for Sam Longley

Here is a list of all the postings Sam Longley has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Acrowot woes
20/07/2016 12:44:36
Posted by brokenenglish on 20/07/2016 10:10:44:
Posted by Sam Longley on 20/07/2016 06:30:57:
some days they are perfect & i can do brilliant landings time after time . Then another day one wonders if i should be allowed on the field.

That sounds like a concentration problem to me.

I've been teaching myself to fly for the last four years, and I try to analyse all my mistakes and areas needing improvement.

If you can do it... but then you don't... That's a concentration problem.

I'm watching this thread because, after starting with an easy electric glider (PZ Radian) 4 years ago, I've progressed through quite a few models, and I'm now loving a Wot 4 (Irvine 53), so I shall probably try an Acrowot in the near future.

Sam, with all my lack of experience, I would still offer a word of advice:

Instead of fooling around with fancy aerobatics, direct your efforts towards accurate flying. Personally, I get a lot of pleasure from observing that my circuits are dead accurate and consistent, and that the take-offs, approaches and landings are really good. IMO, that's a lot more important and satisfying than random aerobatic antics...

Mind you, I do have the advantage of always flying alone, unless I actually want to fly with clubmates, which does happen occasionally, but only when I want to...

Edited By brokenenglish on 20/07/2016 10:14:28

By last year my flying had come on in leaps & bounds because i had lots of flying time. That is when the rolling circles came about & I was showing off one afternoon to a crowd of mates who challenged me that I could not do it.It was a bit like having had 6-7 pints in a pub- you can always run the country better than any prime minister after the 6th one

I actually wanted to go down the IMAC route & went & bought a Hanger 9 Sbach as all the old hands at the club said i could handle one . That plane was built but is still sitting in the shed & has never seen the light of day.

But then , although retired, I was asked to go back to work & with the resultant stress & a long sailing holiday to recover I had 10 months lay off from flying. That has really set me back.

I must admit that I much prefer the set routine type of flying & always feel that a flyer who goes out & flies a few set structured manouvers always looks better than one who just wizzes randomly all over the place going where the plane wants to go rather than where he wants to go

20/07/2016 06:30:57
Posted by Percy Verance on 19/07/2016 21:21:01:

So Sam, you've got a punctured fuel tank.

Remember me mentioning all sorts of damage you may not be able to see immediately? Check that Acrowot over very carefully before you commit to flight again....... I'd still be concerned about trusting that radio gear after the whack it's had.

My bit of friendly advice would be to forget about rolling loops, or rolling anything else. I'd get those landings perfected Sam, because there's a landing after every flight! The other stuff is pretty much optional, landings aren't.......

Edited By Percy Verance on 19/07/2016 21:24:20


What you are saying was drummed into me time & time again by my instructor. He made me do dozens of landings ( I only passed on my 40Th lesson) & after passing my A test i did many more. some days they are perfect & i can do brilliant landings time after time . Then another day one wonders if i should be allowed on the field.

19/07/2016 14:17:45

So moving on, I went to the field full of expectation. My old instructor was there so I asked him to take the plane up first & trim it out for me as it had been re built. plus he sold it to me from his shop in the first place !!

So off it went & he immediately grounded it saying that it was seriously down on power. The engine cylinder head was smoking in the heat as well. He could not spend time with me as he was giving lessons so another day wasted

Well not quite because I had my Wot trainer & true to form I defied all logic. i did 3 faulty landings which were absolutely useless ending up upside down Then I did a dead stick from well out & stopped 6 feet in front of myself !!!

I tried some figure 8's to get my hand in which were so bad I put it down to bad handwritting at school.

Then on the third attempt i did a ROLLING LOOP & carried it off perfectly. so how bad is that? & I did it with a Wot Trainer which everyone tells me will not do them . Actually it is not so hard because the design of the plane just wants to flop the wings round if you get it right especially on the down side which is the bit i thought would be hard as I would start to forget where I was.

I cannot understand how one minute I make a total mess of things then the next i do a difficult manouvre like that

But i still have not got the Acrowot flying again so I am back to square one

18/07/2016 17:32:57

Found out what problem was. The force of the earlier crash had punctured the front of the fuel tank on an engine bolt where it went through the bulkhead a couple of mm so no air pressure in the tank. plus the throttle barrel had come loose

To make matter worse i had re built the bulkhead behind the tank not expecting to have to remove the tank again so the hole was too small to get it out & i spent an hour cutting a hole big enough to remove the old tank & fitting a new round one that was flexible enough to fit through the hole I had cut

Then the engine fired immediately but the stand it was on was not fixed down & with no wings fitted I nearly got a facefull of screaming propeller off the back patio of the house. Fortunately the tail fin caught an upright & it spun round as I jumped back & i was able to grab it. The throttle cut had not been set as I could not work out how to do it as for some reason it opens the throttle not closes it. I managed to get my finger behind the prop & over the carb---A very close shave

So there is a warning in there somewhere

Edited By Sam Longley on 18/07/2016 17:34:51

18/07/2016 17:25:32
Posted by Sam Longley on 18/07/2016 14:18:42:
Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/07/2016 11:21:55:
Posted by Bob Cotsford on 18/07/2016 09:36:26:

I think that is related to the mods Percy mentioned earlier, the fix was to move the tailplane up or down (I can't remember which) on the fuselage. I also think this mod may have been incorporated on the ARTF.

Ah - sorry Bob I missed this. We may have our answer! Mine is an ARTF one - hence maybe why it doesn't exhibit the same behaviour. I have flown kit built ones and I have to say I never noticed it there either - but then I've never gone looking for it.

Sam is your AW a kit built or an ARTF version?



Should have been flying today but for some reason the engine will not start so back to home for strip & examination- such is the joy of modelling. A lovely day wasted !!!!

18/07/2016 14:18:42
Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 18/07/2016 11:21:55:
Posted by Bob Cotsford on 18/07/2016 09:36:26:

I think that is related to the mods Percy mentioned earlier, the fix was to move the tailplane up or down (I can't remember which) on the fuselage. I also think this mod may have been incorporated on the ARTF.

Ah - sorry Bob I missed this. We may have our answer! Mine is an ARTF one - hence maybe why it doesn't exhibit the same behaviour. I have flown kit built ones and I have to say I never noticed it there either - but then I've never gone looking for it.

Sam is your AW a kit built or an ARTF version?



Should have been flying today but for some reason the engine will not start so back to home for strip & examination- such is the joy of modelling. A lovely day wasted !!!!

17/07/2016 18:54:34
Posted by Percy Verance on 17/07/2016 18:13:43:

You keep your transmitter in a shed Sam? surprise

Extremes of temperature, plus the chance of damp or condensation? We're talking electronic components here Sam..........

Erm !!!!

My "Shed" is a newly constructed fully insulated building 10ft 6ins * 22ft 6ins with benches etc plus brand new lathe & mill, bandsaw, modelling gear , ( First small steam engine under way) etc.plenty of lighting . I assure you there is no damp anywhere. That does not take into account the brick built building 22ft * 16ft next to it with some of my other tools with material store etc. where messy activities such as grinding, drilling are carried out

There is also my sail loft for my sailing gear, dinghies etc which is kept in somewhat tidy condition

People are quite envious of the retirement present I bought myself.

17/07/2016 16:58:03
Posted by Donald Fry on 16/07/2016 11:45:50:

Two tiny points, mention was made of using a CG in front of the designers recommendation. Please don't bother, the forward recommended point is a safe conservative position. And someone mentioned stick tension. A famous transmitter designer of days past quoted "soft sticks sell transmitters, hard sticks win competitions".

I have just been out in the shed & adjusted the sticks so they are quite a bit stiffer & first impression is that it may be better. Getting a couple of flights tomorrow so will see if that helps as well. I think it might so thanks for the suggestion.

I had not given that one a thought until you mentioned it. Did not realise one could !!!!

17/07/2016 16:49:50

OS 55

17/07/2016 06:31:31
Posted by Percy Verance on 16/07/2016 22:06:06:

Hi again Sam

What about the receiver and servos though Sam? Don't overlook the fact they've now had a hard impact with the ground and may have damage you can't see ie: receiver components may have been forcibly moved on their boards, servos gears could have damaged or missing teeth etc.........

Edited By Percy Verance on 16/07/2016 22:07:43

Fair comment & something which I had ignored. the throttle, rudder & elevator linkages had all been ripped from the servos in the impact

16/07/2016 21:42:54

Well I bit the bullet & re built the plane. I made a jig for the fuselage as it was in 2 halves & re joined it.The battery had gone through the bulkhead & i have re fitted this. The side wall to one side of the firewall had crushed & has been replaced. I have recovered over the damaged areas. New prop.sorted the dent in the spinner backplate. The wing has been re spliced & covered.Just needs Sunday to check a few minor points

To my surprise the cof g still comes in at 83mm so i managed not to increase the weight of the rear fuselage too much although I have fitted bigger wheels to move some weight forward of the cof g & help landing on grass if I can get back down OK. The controls to the elevator & rudder did not need changing in length more than 1mm so I got that correct.

Monday it will get another flight after I have played about with the futaba 14 channel transmitter to get some expo with some E P A & stiffer sticks as suggested along with the usual range checks etc

Then I may be able to report back with some success.

16/07/2016 15:09:24

To answer a couple of questions

1) I am only level A cert. I recently went to a BMFA instructors seminar at our field & they talked through the B test to get instructors all on the same wave length. If i could get in 3-4 of months constant flying with the same model I reckon i could do the B test on a good day

2) I do know what a rolling circle is & The comment from my instructor is that he watched me doing it with a WOT trainer & commented that there were only a few in the club that could do it so well. I do not carry it off every time & I only do it in light wind days But I do not need rudder as I just feed in elevator at the correct time. It just came about from a comment from the instructor that people do rolls but if one asked them to do several in a line they began to drop or get out of line. That is where the better flier shows up.

I saw an article on rolling circles in RCME , thought it through & went straight up & probably because lots of people were watching( we were all sitting drinking coffee & discussing the article & i reckoned I could do it) I pulled one off straight away. Rolling round & round whilst doing a circuit of the field To cheers from all . I did not use rudder & never do.I did not use an instructor to do it. I just did it. I have also done it with a Riot ( easy)& a Bullet ( harder) all without rudder

4) We have a couple of ex competition fliers in the club & they say rudder in the rolling loop ( which is what I wanted to aspire to one day) is not needed yet all the mags & some contributors here say it is so it is a bit confusing.I try not to argue with club members as they have been doing it for years & I often need their advice

Once I get another plane I will get used to it & try again . I cannot see how I could do a rolling loop without rudder so I will give it a go & see what works for me.

My flying is interspersed with sailing & i often go on 5 week forays so when i come back I find I am back to square one which is probably half the trouble

I am not blaming the plane only trying to get my head round why I ended up getting into these spins.

I would like to thank those for suggestions re correcting the spins & also the comments re spring tension on the sticks. I will look at that. I have a new transmitter & it is certainly lighter on the sticks than my old 6 channel Futaba so stiffening up a bit would not go amiss

16/07/2016 09:04:38
Posted by TigerOC on 16/07/2016 08:46:08:

I have recently started flying the AW. They certainly need to be flown with some speed and do become unstable at low speed.

There is one characteristic not mentioned so far and that is the effect of the rudder on this model. See this thread;


My first experience of this was on a landing approach on the first flight. Decreasing speed and rudder input caused it to dive rather spectacularly.

I have not experienced what you have but do keep the speed up. I have experienced the same spin with a Middle Stik which was purely due to a stall at too low a speed. Diagnosed by an examiner standing next to me.



You have me wondering

I rarely use rudder even in rolling circles etc. my instructor never really got me into rudder use & when we were all discussing rolling loops everyone on the field though rudder was unnecessary. I do not need it in rolling circles.I have not tried knife edge yet

My acrowot has /had loads of rudder set on it, really for steering on the field. I have never actually deliberately used it in flight ( well I have only had 3 flights!!!) My Bullet did not have much rudder as it steered through the nosewheel on the field

I fly mode 1 with elevator & rudder on the same stick & no exponential on the rudder ( I do not have much expo on any stick)

So looking at the link you have given me - If I have inadvertently applied a bit of rudder along with elevator I will have started a " bunt" ( never heard of that term before) which may have started the nose going down & starting the spin.

Is that what happens?

So perhaps the answer is to reduce the rudder throw  & put in a load of exponential as well so I do not accidentally apply rudder causing the "bunt" to start

Does the team think that might be the answer???


Edited By Sam Longley on 16/07/2016 09:06:21

16/07/2016 07:03:14

The senior instructor who had me on the buddy lead ( he was doing that whilst I trimmed the plane for the first flight) said I rolled it too slowly. He was 5 times UK heli champ so was able to recover from the spins Ok but only just

The experienced flier ( who was standing next to me because we had been discussing rolling loops & I was going to try one) said it was a simple stall.

Earlier on in the flight I had been discussing this with him & had taken it up high into the wind cut the throttle & slowed to see what happened & it just dipped the nose so stalls should have been fairly benign

The trouble was that the spins developed very quickly & were so fast that I just froze as I could not see what way the spins were going to correct them before the plane hit the ground

I take the point about c of g & have started a rebuild so will put the cof g further forward than shown in the instructions. I will then take the plane high up & try to re create the spin & see if I can correct it

Why I posted is that it is so different from my Bullet which flew so much better & never once gave this sort of problem. Trouble was that it was so poorly made that joints kept breaking after a lot of flights particularly the firewall etc.

But thanks for the replies anyway & I will see where I get if the rebuild turns out OK

15/07/2016 18:44:44

I was given a part damaged Acrowot but after 2 flights it went into a spin when doing a wide radius turn & i could not stop it so lost it

Later i bought a Bullet & had lots of flights & never once had a similar problem but constant damage to the firewall due to the nose wheel damage on grass meant it was retired off

So I went back to a brand new Acrowot & my old instructor buddied me up to trim it out & due a few rolls etc just to get the feel. At the end of one roll the plane went into a spin & it was only the quick reactions of the instructor saved it

Yesterday with an experienced flier standing next to me I was flying & did couple of rolls , the plane went into a spin & I have lost a nearly new plane after its third flight.

I am not totally useless _ I can regularly do rolling circles with my wot trainer &did the same with my bullet. I cannot understand why my Acrowot was so unstable & went into spins so freely & not only that but spinning so fast that I could not recover

Has anyone else had this hassle with the acrowot or is it just me?

I am trying to rebuild it but am not sure it is worth it. Perhaps another Bullet is on the cards inspite of the tricycle undercarriage


Edited By Sam Longley on 15/07/2016 18:45:19

Edited By Sam Longley on 15/07/2016 18:45:43

Thread: What do you folks recommend for insulating a "model" shed
12/01/2016 20:09:29

I have just bought a concrete garage as a workshop size 22ft * 10ft

It has a cement based red roof sheet & a couple of UPVC windows & a metal up & over door plus a metal side door

I have insulated it by wiring 50*25mm battens vertically to the bolts on the panel joints then putting 25mm celotex between the battens. On the underside of the roof I have put 25mm celotex between the purlins held in place by 18*18 beads nailed to the sides of the purlins I have also glued celotex on the back of the garage door

I have 2 No infra red heaters along with loads of lights & plugs at 600 ccs all round & the place is dry & very warm

the celotex is covered with a sheet of 4mm ply laid 4ft high from ground level then a half sheet above this to give a height of 6 ft. Above that the celotex is exposed but not likely to be damaged.

The 23 sheets of celotex cost me £ 10-00 plus VAT from Travis Perkins delivered( needed a bit of negotiation - I had to try 2 branches to get that price )

I will use the workshop to build & store model planes plus my metal lathe & milling machine & bandsaw

So far no sign of damp etc

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