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Member postings for ChrisB

Here is a list of all the postings ChrisB has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Legislation Proposal at last
04/12/2017 21:52:28

Apologies if i'm repeating others.

For those who weren't aware there are two sets of legislation knocking about at the moment.

EASA NPA and the DFT. Both have had consultations over the last 2 or 3 years, to which many (but not enough), mostly from the UK have responded, including myself and my club. The DFT document largely reflects EASA and suggests that it will let EASA take the lead and may well replicate the EASA regs.

Response by DFT:


The text below is from the NPA 2017-5(A)....NOTE the option for operational authorisation

" is recognised that model aircraft activities have good safety records. This is not due to the type of aircraft used but rather to the code of conduct developed by the model club and associations. In most cases, they have related procedures, they build awareness, and in some cases, they also provide training to their members, thus creating a safety framework.
For this reason, the NPA contains in Article 14 of Regulation (EU) 201X/XXX dedicated requirements for recreational flight activities conducted in the framework of model clubs and associations, allowing competent authorities to issue an operational authorisation in which they may define deviations from the rules proposed in this NPA. This operational authorisation is issued based on the procedures, management system, etc. of the club or association, without further showing of compliance"

Some context from the LMA website for those who weren't aware of the various consultations and documents that have been published in recent months.




Edited By ChrisB on 04/12/2017 21:53:47

03/12/2017 19:04:05
Posted by Steve J on 03/12/2017 18:22:39:
Posted by ChrisB on 03/12/2017 18:08:36:

Whats changed?

Technology has advanced to the point where is it possible to do commercially valuable things with small unmanned aircraft.


PS It's rotor not rota.

Or is it the risk of accident/incident from the Christmas toy brigade?

03/12/2017 18:08:36
Posted by Steve J on 03/12/2017 17:32:35:
Posted by ChrisB on 03/12/2017 17:19:05:

Mavic Pro quadcopter, 40mph, 1kg in weight...13 joules, so wouldn't need registering.

You need to check your maths.

The pilot would need to register in any case as it is over 250g.

All this has come about by the issue of quadcopters

No it hasn't.

Incidentally, FFAM made a similar point when the recent French law drew a line at 800g.


Well, there you are, as easy as pie to work out for the common man. I think its about 275j. 1.5k @ 45mph

Conventional, normal, old fashioned model aeroplanes, built from balsa wood and covered in tissue and dope have been flying for decades across the world with limited legislation, in the UK in the form of CAP 658.

What has prompted the recent legislation that has been introduced/proposed in USA, Ireland etc etc Whats changed? As I see it there is only one thing Drones/quadcopter/multirotas.

03/12/2017 17:19:05

Mavic Pro quadcopter, 40mph, 1kg in weight...13 joules, so wouldn't need registering.

All this has come about by the issue of quadcopters but the new legislation of joules would exclude them. Seems pointless.

03/12/2017 17:04:58

I can see the advantage of this newly proposed amendment re Joules vs weight, which on the face of it will exempt the majority of conventional sports club flyers BUT will also exempt the majority of multi-rota aircraft.

The day to day reality of the average modeller working out the possible speed of a model vs the weight and resulting energy and therefore whether or not their model needs to be registered (according to EASA legislation) is not going to happen. Its not practical, or reasonable.

How fast does a model fly? A glider, foamie, jet or warbird, biplane or acrowot.

As for those with larger and faster models, by what means will they register and how will they work out the speed of a model? Hopefully, being in one of the national associations will suffice!

Thread: BMFA Online Membership portal open for 2018 membership renewals
02/12/2017 06:52:11

I renewed our club last night, nice and simple and only took 5 minutes. Superb!

Thread: Legislation Proposal at last
30/11/2017 17:40:35

Personally I would wait until the draft legislation is published, alongside the consultation before passing comment. If people are to make comment, it goes without saying construct a sound and logical argument with evidence, rather than a rant or anecdotal chatter.

30/11/2017 17:37:07

Re. the CAA. They are fully aware of what a model aircraft is and what a new fangled drone/MR is. They visit several model airshows every year to ensure the law is complied with and they are the people whom the show organisers contact for exemptions to the display ceiling for models over 7.5kg. They are also the body who formally issue airworthiness certificates to for models over 20kg via the LMA.

Take it from me, as someone who writes policies for a living, the issue is not the CAA. It's members of the civil service, both here and abroad who are tasked with preparing legislation that appeases the political aspirations of their masters. They, the civil servants, are told to jump and they have to jump, its as simple as that. The one man and a dog at the CAA, can only do so much both in terms of persuading the civil servants and their masters and inputting to the policies.

28/11/2017 19:32:23

Fear not folks, I don't think the world is going to end.

Registration will be defacto if you're in a national association. The logic of registering every individual flying machine, from palm size up to those weighing 20kg is not realistic and will never happen, its not enforceable, manageable or reasonable.

The logistics of keeping track of every aircraft, ones that crash, get stored, sold, or have significant modifications is never going to be workable by anyone, neither the BMFA nor individual clubs.

The LMA manage it through a network of inspectors and the main CAA contact Tony Hooper. But this can only be done mainly as there are not that many aircraft on the over 20kg register, when compared to the hundreds of thousands of smaller models in existence.

The DFT won't do much more until EASA have published their findings. The recent news said there would be DFT a consultation in the spring. That will be the second DFT consultation in as many years, so it will be very interesting to see what that consultation contains. I will bet my salary it will be focused solely on MR aircraft and not on model aeroplanes as we traditionally knew them. I.e. we the aeromodellers are not their concern!

Edited By ChrisB on 28/11/2017 19:33:35

Edited By ChrisB on 28/11/2017 19:36:08

Thread: All very nice, but who cares?
27/11/2017 19:25:53

I wish them all the best, but come on, two people getting married, how unusual! Hopefully we'll get a free day off to go flying in he Spring!

27/11/2017 19:19:12

Very good John

27/11/2017 19:03:52

Its all very nice that Harry is getting married but do we really have to have chapter and verse about how they met, what they eat and which way they brush their hair!

Two people getting married and that's that.

Months more of this carp to come I fear!

Thread: Legislation Proposal at last
27/11/2017 09:22:24

Completely agree Cuban.

I had an email conversation with a lady at EASA when the original consultation was launched about 18 months ago. She feeely admitted that model planes are not an issue at all but they have no fool proof way of separating the two so as to remove loopholes.

26/11/2017 22:40:47

Any possible testing will be more than likely in the form of an online multiple choice test.

In terms of any registration, then its likely that your existing BMFA information will be provided to the CAA/DFT and that will be the extent of it.

All just supposition at the moment, but that's how I suspect it will pan out our those in national associations.

26/11/2017 18:40:18
Posted by Ron Gray on 26/11/2017 18:34:47:

@ Rich, not strictly true, the CAA definition is as shown in this screen shot from their website:


Having listened to feedback at the LMA AGM last week, the CAA are only too aware of what a model aircraft is and they are more than satisfied that model flyers and their clubs are law abiding, safe and low risk. BUT the CAA are being leaned on by a variety of higher beings!

26/11/2017 18:37:45

What boys in blue, both of them!

The law states that it is an offence to smoke in a vehicle if there are children present and to smoke in a vehicle that is your place of work, do the police enforce those laws, no. Why not, because they both have more important things to do.

The police don't have the resources to deal with anything these days, let alone these latest fad proposals.

26/11/2017 18:17:49

Just seen the BBC news and guess what......all the footage was of quadcopters and there was no mention of model aircraft.

What does the Minister and the BBC think is a drone.........certainly not a wot 4!

Thread: Guns in Society
26/11/2017 18:15:36

It astounds me that in a so called "civilised country" there are so many deaths caused by shootings. More people have been killed in America by Americans, ether police or ordinary citizens than have been killed in foreign wars. When will Americans see that being free to bear arms will only end in more bloodshed!

Its absolute madness and Mr Trump hasn't helped the situation at all!

13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide].


Thread: Legislation Proposal at last
26/11/2017 10:11:21

When you read the DFT statement on the GOV website and look at the pictures, what are their main concerns and what is their main interest? Its certainly not a wot4 or a spitfire. Its all about Multi-rota aircraft!


Anyway, a Statement from Dave Phipps below (taken from the BMFA Facebook page)


Many of you will have seen this morning's news headline relating to multirotors.

As you know, the BMFA works closely with the CAA & EASA to protect our sport.

BMFA Chief Exec, Dave Phipps, has released the below statement to clarify the current situation.

"DfT announces commitment to implement new rules for drones

The DfT (Department for Transport) have today announced their intent to create new legislation to regulate drones. A draft Bill outlining the new laws is in preparation and will be presented to Parliament in the Spring.

The new laws are consistent with the regulations being drafted by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and will introduce new requirements for education, training and registration of drone users (and their drones above 250g) along with new powers for the Police who will be responsible for enforcing the laws.

We remain hopeful that the DfT will retain a ‘common sense’ attitude to model flying and will also follow EASA’s lead on this. EASA recognise the excellent safety record achieved by model flying and have made special provisions in their rules to allow a much ‘lighter touch’ to be applied.

Representatives from the UK Model Flying Associations will be meeting with the DfT early in the New Year to discuss the proposals in greater detail.

Edited By ChrisB on 26/11/2017 10:12:41

26/11/2017 09:53:49

We don't encourage multi-rota aircraft at our club, although not banned completely. We don't allow FPV or any automation of any kind for anything.

We don't encourage them primarily because we are a conventional fixed wing model flying club (we don't encourage helicopters either, but there is a dedicated heli club nearby anyway).

Also, society associates MR with the term drones and not a conventional fixed wing model aircraft. So, if locals or someone in authority see a MR hovering around the flying site, they will immediately think of the headlines in the Daily Mail and BBC but seeing a scale model or an aerobatic model or a glider, they will just think of model aeroplanes being flown by men in straw hats at smoking a pipe and will hopefully not get too excited and that's fine with us!

Yes there is and will continue to be legislation for everything that flies but its not the legislation that people should be worried about, its the reaction/overreaction of the media who ultimately influence the average man on the street and the local authorities, be it planning, environmental health, councillors, police etc

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