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Member postings for Scott Edwards 2

Here is a list of all the postings Scott Edwards 2 has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: One ninth of a Canberra
01/11/2015 19:05:44

This is a shameless plug.

It looks like one of those things the Mrs sticks up her bra, but is less squishy.

I copied Matt Jones technique, and built a mould of the fuselage with cloth & epoxy and then built the plug on that. It decidedly tried my patience as there isn't a straight line is sight, I think it's come out rather good though ! The bare sanded balsa was a bit crap, so I put a layer of car body filler on it and its now as smooth as a babies bumcheek.

Originally I was intending to send it off for Vac-Forming, but I'm now tempted to leave it solid and paint it gloss black hmmmmm ....

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01/11/2015 18:56:44

That's really useful feedback Peter, for most of us everything's a compromise, it's a balance of cost, hassle, weight and personal preference. Bottom line is they all work pretty much. I'm very weight conscious as I fly on an ikkle 'ill, and I'm cost conscious as big models are just money hoovers. On balance, yes I'm sacrificing quality of finish and strength for cost and low weight, If I lived within an hour of the Great Orme though it would be completely different

Your experience of Ronseal varnish is really interesting, I haven't been able to tell the difference between that and Poly-C. If anyone knows what the difference is I would love to know ? I haven't tried Eze Kote yet because it's 30 quid a litre (gulp) If I do a smaller project I will definitely give it a go though.

Thread: PSS Tornado F.3
31/10/2015 09:12:58
It's only through watching these evolve here that you realise what damned complex shapes Tornadoes are, and the modelling skills required to do one! I doff my cap to you all.

Very pleased that classic fin shape is now on yours Andy, I believe the locals referred to them as "Norfolk land Sharks".
Thread: One ninth of a Canberra
25/10/2015 22:35:43

Jolly good question Phil ! I've had a go with different coverings recently and come up with the following conclusions:

Profilm: Nice but damned expensive. Last project took 10 rolls. That will be £178 Sir. Thank you. It's tricky stuff to paint too.

Solartex: See Profilm above. Loves paint though.

Glass/Epoxy: Tough as old nails, quite expensive, heavy, and I'm allergic to the blasted stuff. I have to wear goggles, marigold gloves and a Burka to use it. It's not a pretty sight.

Tissue/Varnish: Cheap as chips, light, loves paint, but nowhere near as tough as any of the above.

I use Ronseal Diamond Hard Interior Satin Varnish. This IS Poly-C. A big tin is half the price though, and I use leightweight tissue from RC-World (6gsm I think?) I seal the wood with cellulose sanding sealer, rub down, then tissue/varnish, rub down, and then another few coats of varnish rubbing down in between. I try to build simple practical lightweight models built to fly rather than to resist crash damage. I just accept the fact that a good pile-in and they will turn to dust So basically, it's a compromise.

23/10/2015 16:14:29

Well, after a brief hiatus for some of that annoying 'work' nonsense we're off again ! The second nacelle is completed and went together far easier than the first ! Often the way, you apply lessons learned from the first and the second one goes much better. It is fully covered in tissue and varnish and ready for priming ! Almost a shame to cover that lovely wooden framework, but it has to be done.

The remaining challenge is the canopy. I'm going to use the technique Matt Jones documented for his jaw dropping Sea Vixen, so will be making a 'mould' of the fuselage to build the canopy plug on.

Weight wise everything in the pics below comes in at 3600g or just under 8lbs Still nicely on target !

Incidentally, yes, the Mrs WAS out of the house.

And she doesn't have a login here either

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05/10/2015 11:00:35

I have occasionally tried to understand more complex aerodynamics - I invariably fail, and draw the conclusion that there is an awful lot more going on than my minor brain can cope with. In the example above, with an object traveling in circular motion of radius 10m at 30ms-1 those calculations are equivalent to a conker on a string in a vacuum. A PSS Canberra is not a conker, there is no string, we have the air to think about, and the wings are generating lift (a lot) at that speed. These things make my head hurt. I would much rather rely on my blind faith in Carbon Fibre and glue stuff together whilst listening to Pink Floyd, which brings us back to ...

Nacelles - oh my they're a lot of work. Two of them, 3 foot long with a wing going through the middle. Trickiest bit is planking and then shaping/sanding without taking lumps out of the wing. The crutches and formers fit together perfectly. Doing a good planking and shaping job requires a degree of craftsmanship though, rather than a hacker & basher like yours truly. I've completed one to a reasonable level, but will move onto other things temporarily before returning to do the other nacelle. Couple of pics below, one with crutches in place, and another with one nacelle completed ...

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On a side note - I *think* I've settled on a colour scheme - Silver with yellow wing bands. Conveniently there is one of these at the Norfolk Aviation Museum (A 1954 T4 version WH840) Coincidentally I happen to be in the area next week too, how tragic ! Much photograph taken will be.

22/09/2015 18:38:35

Jolly good question sir. The main spar is hard 1/4 balsa with a 1/16 ply plate bonded to it that extends slightly into the outer section of the wing. The primary strength comes from that. Where the inner panel of the wing meets the outer tapered panel is a double thickness rib (2 * 1/18 balsa) so the butted sheets overlap half of this double width rib. There is no bandaging or internal reinforcement.

I'm of the opinion that we massively over-engineer these things, and we instinctively build them to survive a crash rather than to fly. I've crashed many powered ARTF sports planes and always dissect them to see how they are built. Their minimalist structure is astonishing, and the wood is generally cr*p too. I've yet to make one fail in flight, and damn I've tried ! Similarly with foam wings, stick an old Acro Wot wing between two chairs and sit on it - you will be amazed how much it can take.

Here's a question (I don't have a clue what the answer is) A 5Kg PSS model with 100 dm2 of wing is dived vertically from silly height to say 30 m/s and then given 45 degrees full up elevator - what is the maximum instantaneous force on the wing at the root ? I suspect it's actually not greater than the 5Kg mass of the plane ?

22/09/2015 09:00:33

Alas no, that was in fact "une up de cock". Ahem. My basic failure to be able to read a plan properly. Thank you for highlighting this fact publicly on my behalf hahaha

A bit of selotape & PVA and bish bosh let's all pretend it didn't happen

21/09/2015 10:12:24

Met up with Andy B last week. He's updated his plan to add a crutch & former based nacelle design. Not only that, but he doubled it in size for me and printed it out ! Added to that he printed two copies, one to slice up and one for reference !!! He also bought me lunch What a thoroughly top chap ! Triple win.

I haven't built many models from plans, but I've done enough to know some are bl**dy inaccurate. Even CNC cut plans I've done have had big margins of error. Andys stuff is flipping micrometre bang on though. You don't need to do any second guessing, just cut it out and you know everything will fit perfectly.

The nacelles are 32 inches long, so it's a bit like building two small fuselages. However, a quick appointment with Mr Bandsaw now sees me with a kit of nacelle parts to crack on with later this week ...

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Thread: PSSA Gliding Events
19/09/2015 07:57:02
I've been monitoring the forecasts past few days, and alas that's the first time I've ever seen "0 mph" predicted Sadly it's just too far and too expensive a journey for me not to fly. Hope you have a good day though, and fingers crossed for more Bwlch PSS days.
Thread: One ninth of a Canberra
14/09/2015 12:55:15

Doesn't look much different to last time, but lots of the fiddly bits are now done. Nose and tail are shaped, all the waggly bits are cut out, faced and prepared for hinging, the servo cables are in, the fin leading edge shaped and glued in place and lumps and bumps filled in !

The fuselage is covered from the fin forwards, but needs a few more coats of Varnish before rubbing down ready for primer. I have to admit that I used glass cloth for the forward fuselage. My planking was a bit rubbish in places and I had thin patches, so I sucked up my pride and resorted to 34gsm cloth for added strength.

Keen eyes will spot the obvious lack of engine nacelles !! Andy Blackburn, he who designed the half sized version of this thing, is currently updating his plan, and knocking me up a set of double sized nacelle plans ! Bless him. The idea is to use a central crutch with formers, and then plank over the top. Should be nice and light.

I keep an eye on weight as I go, my local slope is a bit girly, so things have to be kept really light. Everything in these photos, is a smidge under 7lb which I'm pretty chuffed with, and nicely aiming for that 12lb AUW target.

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14/09/2015 12:35:04

Craftsman ? Me ? Oh bless you Erfolg, I know people who would roll about laughing at me being described as a craftsman haha ! I am in truth a very very average basher of the holy balsa bush. Take a look at some of the stuff that Matt Jones or Andy Blackburn produce, now THATS craftsmanship. My aim is to build simple practical flying models using basic techniques, and also to prove that if I can do it, then really anyone can.

Anyhow - progress update ! Covering has commenced, and Austerity covering it is too. Big stuff can be a money hoover. 12 rolls of Profilm ? That's two hundred pounds sir. Glass cloth is 6 quid a square meter, plus epoxy at 15 quid a pint too. Yikes !

So what's the alternative ? Acrylic varnish and tissue. I like Poly-C, but that's £20 a litre. As far as I can research, Poly-C is 'Minwax Polycrylic' made by Ronseal and is the same stuff as their Interior 'Diamond Hard' Varnish. I've used both, smelled both, tasted both (yuk) and damned if I can tell any difference ! The Poly-C guys say they've added a magic ingredient, but that's possibly a drip of PVA if anything.

So - you can get a large tin of the Ronseal stuff for £25, decant it into 1 pint milk bottles and that's the equivalent of Poly-C at half the price. Bonus !

Tissue is, gulp, 30p a sheet ! Do these people think I'm made of money !!!!???

Pic of Scotts Austerity covering kit below. £30 quid all in. The brown sheet is 'Tufnel' from directplastics.co.uk Amazing stuff, tough as nuts and easy to work with. From one sheet of that you can cut about 50 bespoke surface control horns for tuppence ha'penny hahahah I love this hobby

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Thread: PSSA Gliding Events
14/09/2015 08:41:23

Just as Andy says - I'm turning up smiley

For other flyers who are thinking about it, do come, even if it's just to check out the Bwlch for the first time ! It's truly an amazing place. With so many slopes, local knowledge is invaluable, so just coming along for a guided tour by the local flyers will be a great experience.

Out of interest Steve, will we have the key to the gate that goes up to the SW and W slopes ?

Thread: One ninth of a Canberra
01/09/2015 12:33:09

Isn't it nice when you get to the point when you can assemble a model for the first time !

About 90% of the balsa is now bashed. Nose piece, wing tips, curved fin leading edge and nacelles to go. Lots of filling and making good required though. I managed to put my thumb through a wing skin just for good measure as well grrrrrr....

The only tricky thing so far, is that the fuselage is round, so rolls about like a cold sausage on a paper plate at a party. The tail alignment went OK though ! When I built one fuselage side, I put in a hard balsa strip on the central datum line where the base of the tail sits. It was therefore a case of hacking slots in the fuselage so I could slide the tail through from one side and sit it on this datum strip.

Not that far from covering now. The fuselage is bit thin in places (my planking skills still leave much to be desired) so that's going to be glass cloth and Poly-C or equivalent. All other surfaces will be tissue and Poly-C.

I've had a weigh in too. The whole lot in these photos comes in at 2620 grams , nicely under 6lb which I'm quite pleased with. My target is 10lb all up, plus 2lb nose weight, so I'm on target (ish)

Only bit I'm not looking forward to is making the canopy plug, but Matt Jones Vixen log has really given me some fabulous ideas on that, but that's months away !

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01/09/2015 12:03:07

Wet bank holiday weekends are what aeromodelling was made for eh !

The wings are now fully skinned, and the fuselage is in one piece. The fuse is round of course, and the wing roots are flat, so there is that gap between root and fuse that would normally require a stub-wing of some sort.

I've tried an alternative method that seems to have worked quite well. I damped some 1/8 balsa, and moulded it around the fuselage side and taped the edges down. Then mount the wing, and fill the gaps between the wing root and the 1/8th sheet with scrap balsa & PVA. When dry, remove from the fuselage, trim the excess 1/8 sheet away and then sheet the wing as normal to the edge of this curved 'false' root. You end up with a lovely curved wing root that mates to the fuselage perfectly. I was rather chuffed ! When the fuselage is covered, I will use the car body filler trick, and the fuselage/wing root joins should be almost invisible.

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Thread: PSS Tornado F.3
01/09/2015 11:38:21

Well frankly your Mrs should be grateful you did it outside ! Plus she shouldn't be smoking anyway, so that's 2 : 1 to you I reckon

Looking good though ! At a guess it's accurate to within a micron knowing you too.

Another factor in covering is expense, particularly for larger models. Glass/Epoxy or Profilm comes out at about £10 per square metre, tissue and Acrylic varnish is wayyyy less. It all adds up.

I reckon that Ronseal Acrylic Interior Varnish (the 'Diamond Hard' stuff) is the same gloop as Poly-C. They say Poly-C has a magic additive, but that's probably just a blob of PVA if anything. A man size tin of the Ronseal works out at half the price of Poly-C too.

I'm biased because I'm allergic to epoxy, but the conclusion I've reached, is that if you want to cover a balsa surface for painting, then tissue and varnish is great. It takes paint beautifully, never wrinkles, and is easily repaired. For increased structural integrity, then something else is better (but more expensive!)

Thread: One ninth of a Canberra
24/08/2015 12:25:29

Got some major wingage work done over the wet weekend. The wing is really nice to build, and the accuracy of Andy Blackburns' plan is astonishing. The flat bottom means you can weigh it down and build it really accurately. The only tricky bit is getting the wing spar/joiner holes aligned which dictates the dihedral.

I've got a dihedral difference of 3mm between wingtips, but at this scale, heck ! I can live with that.

As for a finishing deadline - SEPTEMBER ???!!! hahahah very funny Steve. Next March is more like. I've learned from previous projects that getting the basic balsa airframe finished is still only a fraction of the overall timescale.

Picture of all the bits and pieces below, it reminds me of the Eric Morcombe quote - All the notes are there but they are not necessarily in the right order !

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Edited By Scott Edwards 2 on 24/08/2015 12:26:31

20/08/2015 20:17:50

I built each stabiliser and elevator in one piece, so I could cut the elevators out. First time I've tried that and it's worked very well ! First time I've built a tail with dihedral too ! It looks pretty cool Overall span of the tail is a tad over 36 inches, it would make a good flying wing.

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17/08/2015 23:12:07

I said earlier that I didn't mind planking. I wish to withdraw that statement. It's sending me ever so slightly (more) nutty now.

About half way through the right hand fuse half. If anyone tells me I've built two right hand sides haha that's not funny. I know. I've done that before. I've built two right hand wings before too.

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Thread: PSS Tornado F.3
16/08/2015 23:35:30
Well pleased your mojo has turned up again

Do you think the B&Q acrylic varnish would work well with tissue ?
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