Here is a list of all the postings Roger Dyke has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.
|Thread: Understanding the numbers....|
One flight only today due to the windy conditions.
5 minute flight.
Telemetry response: A - 1429, B - 29, L - 0, R - 0, F - 732, H - 0
The telemetry response as you can see, is probably worse than last time. This time I was prepared and set the TX to give a 5 second voice update status on the frames and holds. As mentioned in a previous post I was expecting the worst conditions to be when the aircraft was flying towards me or away from me. Wrong...…. It was the total opposite. The frames were more or less steady in the turns but started to gallop away when flying either downwind or upwind parallel to the runway. I am standing half way along the runway to the side. I didn't fly any 8's or loops, I just concentrated on flying the circuit (large circuit) left hand and right hand. Strange really as I have checked everything I know including replacing the receiver. The satellite receiver antennas are located with one on the left wall of the fuselage and the other on the right, both well away from clutter etc. I would have thought that if the main receiver didn't see the signal, then one of these antennas might as I was flying parallel to the runway. I am now into thinking about trying another make of receiver system to see if that changes things. By the way, the aircraft control performed perfectly.
Don: First select 'Telemetry' off the menu. Then select 'Flight Log'. This will give you a Flight Log Alarm screen which gives you Frames, Holds, Signal, etc., where you can select 'how many' and add a tone or a voice.
I too put my antennas in tubes. I use the plastic tubes that we get from the tops of spent aerosol cans. The tubing is very narrow and the hole is exactly the right size for the antenna. I secure them with a spot of silicone rubber adhesive plus a small blob on the end to retain the antenna.
I have spent all day today carrying out all sorts of tests with antenna repositioning, receiver swapping and think I've explored just about everything. I cannot find any fault whatsoever to do with the radio system. As was suggested to me in earlier posts, I am fast coming to the conclusion that the problem with the excessive frames in flight, is the result of the large engine (0.61) plus it's silencer with added quiet silencer is shielding the antennas and blocking the signal from the transmitter when the plane is flying towards me. As I fly lots of horizontal and vertical 8's plus lots of circuits there must be lots of occasions when the aircraft is in this position for a few seconds each time. Next time I go to the flying field I am going t set the voice on the transmitter to report when I am getting holds to try and get a clue as to when they are happening.
Don: Yes, I remember the range check being about the same myself back in the seventies. I'm not worried about it, I was just curious that's all. I have been in touch with Hobby King myself by email and up to now we have had 3 exchanges. So far I have had confirmation that the only way that we can tell whether the satellite is working is by it having it's binding light solid. It cannot be confirmed by the telemetry readback. It does not use the 'L' and 'R' locations as I'd hoped. What I do not have an answer for is that the readback figures I get in locations 'A' and 'B' are about the same regardless of whether I have the satellite connected or not. I have tried the 4 antennas in all sorts of different positions but it makes no difference at all. Strange as the reviews for the satellite (R110XL) are generally good.
Hi All, I emailed Hobby King Technical Support couple of days ago regarding the telemetry returns from the R620X receiver and R110XL satellite, and also how I can tell that the satellite is fully connected and affective. The first reply I received was not too promising, supplying me a link to an answer in a Q & A forum which didn’t really address my question. I have emailed them again, this time asking them questions of a more technical depth but I’m not holding my breath. I am getting the feeling that I’m not dealing with a technical person. More a person that looks down a table of pre-typed replies and picks the most relevant reply.
Just on a slightly different note. I have just learned that model aircraft Transmitters manufactured for the US market have a power output set to 200mW and the ones for the European (and UK) market 100mW. Armed with this knowledge, I got to thinking about which market the receivers were aimed at. In the UK, the TX instructions tell us to walk 28 paces to carry out a range check. I’m wondering that if it says the same in the US TX instructions, then the range sensitivity is going to be totally different. Or am I missing something?
Just a thought.
When I purchased the satellite (R110XL), I plugged it into the main receiver, powered up, and then carried out the 'bind' process. When carrying this out, initially both receiver and satellite were both flashing, then after the 'bind' they both had a steady solid light. Do you think that I ought to have carried out the 'bind' process on the main receiver only, then plugged in the satellite?
Edited By Roger Dyke on 10/06/2019 20:43:13
Don: I have just identified on the main receiver which is antenna 'A' and antenna 'B' by using my spare receiver. Antenna 'A' is the vertical one shown in the first picture. The only one that hasn't been moved. It is now about to be. I'm at a bit of a loss as to where to put it but no doubt find somewhere with a bit of thought.
Steve: On the Spektrum AR6600T receiver, the 'A' is the main receiver signals and 'B' is the remote receiver signals. On the Orange R620X receiver, both 'A' and the 'B' record the main receiver signals. With the satellite then plugged in there is no difference at all to any of the telemetry readbacks. The 'L' and 'R' locations remain at '0'.
Steve: I do not have a Spektrum or Lemon receiver to hand and would involve me purchasing them just for elimination purposes. If it comes to that I probably will. You are correct about the main receiver. The primary receiver is the one showing the antennas in the first photo. The only antenna that hasn't been moved is the vertical one in the middle of the fuselage. That may be 'A' or 'B'. I have no way of knowing.
Don: I don't think it's working either but I've not got any way of knowing. You're right, the 'A' antenna is definitely not doing me any favours. It would be useful to know which one out of the two that is. The RX has two satellite sockets and the instructions say that if you only have one then it must be plugged into number one (which it is).
The 'top hat' on the servo ferrules is sitting at the bottom between the beam and the rubber servo bush. The rubber bushes are slightly thicker than the length of the ferrules so they look a bit crushed when screwed down. I used to mount them the other way up years ago but since I've got back into the hobby I've learnt that they were upside down. I must admit that the servo mounting screws do look a bit tight.
Nigel: It could be a noisy servo perhaps but I think unlikely as I only purchased them all new a couple of months ago. The grub screws are all tight and only been re-installed very recently. There are no loose metal parts or connections anywhere. I do have another S148 handy, so might start swapping it around if I get completely stuck for answers. It possibly is an 'installation thing', but I have already moved the antennas around two or three times to no avail.
Another visit to the flying field today. Receiver (R620X) changed and also one of the antennas moved.
Two perfect flights with no glitches at all. Smooth horizontal 8's flown with a few rolls and loops. Couldn't fault the aircraft's performance.
Now the bad bit (both 5 minute flights):-
A - 1497, B - 88, L - 0, R - 0, F - 410, H - 0
A - 1485, B - 90, L - 0, R - 0, F - 435, H - 0
The results look rubbish (again). I have attached some photos of my installation. Which although might not be brilliant, is certainly a lot better than most I see of other installations.
Edited By Roger Dyke on 10/06/2019 14:29:07
Don: I sort of assumed that the satellite (R110XL) would fill in the L and R slots after it was added but they both remained at '0'. I assume that the satellite is connected okay by the way it mimics the main receiver in the binding process and finishes with a solid light. I will wait to see if anyone out there knows the answer. If not, I will email Hobby King.
Don: I would do that but haven't got one. Only just recently received this one from the Honk Kong supplier (not available locally or from Europe).
Edited By Roger Dyke on 09/06/2019 13:39:34
Denis: Thanks for your reply. I have also had two successful flights with this set up to my visual limits. I just can't see any evidence or improvement to say that the satellite has been added.
Just a query for all you knowledgeable sorts that are in the know. The telemetry returns on my DX6 v3 are:-
A, B, L, R, F, and H
My Orange R620X receiver returns numbers in A, B, F, and H (although I never see holds so is 0). I also never see anything other than '0' in the L and R locations either.
I have recently added an R110XL satellite receiver to the system and followed up with a re-bind. My observation on the telemetry returns is that the that the numbers returned are about the same as they were before fitting the satellite, even with the satellite antennas in an ideal place and quite a distance from the main receiver antennas. Also, there are still '0's' in the L and R locations. In operation there is a solid light on in both the receiver and the satellite.
How do I know that the satellite is actually doing anything?
Nigel: It is my intention to change over the receiver first. Unfortunately, I won't be visiting the flying field for another week so will be a little time before I see the results (not holding my breath though).
Steve: I understand all your three points which are all valid and I can't argue with. My puzzle is that I have three aircraft, all fitted with the same equipment and one's telemetry figures are totally different to the other two. There must be a reason for that somewhere. I'm just trying to find out where.
Denis: I fully understand that during the take-off, flight, and landing, there will always be the occasional blind spots shielding the signal. What I am concerned about is how dramatically different the signal strength is between this model and two others I have with exactly the same equipment. Especially as the aircraft in question has much better places within it to position the antennas. It also now has an extra satellite receiver fitted. The expected frame losses for a 10 minute flight are supposed to be about 20 or less which is what I achieve with my other models. With this one I'm getting 286. That's terrible.
brokenenglish: Unless you run a system that has telemetry, you wouldn't be aware of the transmission quality, as you wouldn't see the numbers transmitted back from the receiver. I agree with you. All my models fly with no problem too if I just carry out a range check and ignore the telemetry. I too have never had a single glitch or problem whilst flying. The telemetry just tells me how poor the radio link is to this particular plane and gives me the opportunity of improving it.
Don: I hear what you say and will always bow to the more knowledgeable than I, but wouldn't think it was the engine that was causing the problem. The engine is about 10" from the first two receiver antennas and 20" from the satellite antennas. That's quite a distance. They are also in an un-cluttered area. The antennas in my other IC planes are much, much closer and I don't have any problem with those at all. For starters I'm not going to move the antennas again as I believe they're probably fine. I'm going to change the receiver and then take it one stage at a time. I fly all my planes roughly the same circuits and distances and three out of four of them are fine, so it looks like I have something to find. I will get there...….. Eventually......
Don: It's quite a wide fuselage and quite a long space. The model is an old Dave Smith Super Dalotel with a 68" wingspan and a SC61 2 stroke engine. I am not pushed for room (as I was with the other models with the same receiver). All the four antennas are between 3" and 8" apart and are not close to any large or metal objects. They look like they are ideally placed.
You may well be right. Why I am a bit puzzled is that the other two aircraft fitted with the same receivers show far better results (even without the added satellite receiver).
Mind you, I didn't fly them on the same day as this one.
Want the latest issue of RCM&E? Use our magazine locator link to find your nearest stockist!