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Member postings for Richard Clark 2

Here is a list of all the postings Richard Clark 2 has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Puffing packs - edf jet
12/08/2020 11:33:53
Posted by MattyB on 12/08/2020 11:27:07:
Posted by TonyS on 12/08/2020 10:59:47:

Looking at the set-up I suspect a big part of the problem is the lack of any airflow in the battery compartment. Worse than that it's a very snug fit in a foam cavity - like a hot water cylinder jacket!!

Might be time to start punching holes!!

There is a long thread over on RCGroups about this model - might be worth a trawl to see if others have had these issues and if so how they addressed them...

PS - I see what you mean about the layout, there can't be much airflow getting to the pack in it's foam tomb...

Edited By MattyB on 12/08/2020 11:30:07

It seems to fly very well.

Thread: Electro mechanical retracts control board
12/08/2020 11:24:09
Posted by Steve J on 12/08/2020 10:16:39:
Posted by Phil Green on 08/08/2020 21:09:14:

You can do it much simpler than that and for much lower cost.

You have drawn an H-bridge with relays. Your way will have a servo driving a switch and the limit switches switching the motor current. I would go for an Arduino and an L293 (or other H-bridge circuit if more current is required) which would also allow control of the motor speed.

They are not relays as they don't need coils. Merely two limit switches and two diodes (all of which are already there) and a double pole changeover switch and a servo. Even a nine or ten gramme servo will do.

As for speed, with screwjacks it will be 'slow' anyway and trying to make it slower it probably won't work at all as such jacks have extremely high friction.

As someone who has been a professional 'big' computer designer for over 35 years and am now working on the new 'post electronic' computers I strongly believe the use of a computer, and probably a bridge for something so simple is merely a modern 'knee jerk' fashion. In much the same as a Victorian engineer's first thought would be a steam engine plus boiler

12/08/2020 09:46:56
Posted by jimmac on 12/08/2020 09:28:03:
Posted by Phil Green on 08/08/2020 21:09:14:

You can do it much simpler than that and for much lower cost.........

Cheers
Phil

Thanks Phil and all you other guys for your advice, I can now go and help the owner of them. He isn't too internet savvy to find the help you guys have given.

Yes. There is no need whatsoever to faff around with 'controllers' or 'Arduinos' and the like. Buying and figuring out how to program a computer for such a simple task is ridiculous.

Thread: Puffing packs - edf jet
12/08/2020 04:49:40
Posted by TonyS on 11/08/2020 23:49:37:

I’ve a problem. I have a Hobbyking Phazer. It’s a small foamy edf that I use for a bit of fun and flying practice. It was built for a 3s battery or so the sales spiel goes.

the last two times I’ve flown it with a 3s 30C 1800 pack, the packs have puffed up and been red hot on landing.

ive bought a slightly larger 3s pack that is rated at 60c which I hope will last a bit longer. Would a 4s pack be better at handling the loads or would that simply fry the ESC and motor?

 

As MattyB says 4S will make it worse. The current will go up, not down.

So you have done the right thing in buying a higher C rated battery.

But even then, do NOT believe the C rating, as Simon appears to do. It is nonsense, just pure marketing hype. Though a 60C rated battery is likely to deliver the same or a little more current as a 30C rated one of the same capacity due to a lower voltage drop than the 30C one. This may marginally improve the performance even with the battery probably being slightly heavier, and the battery should not get so hot.

Edited By David Ashby - Moderator on 12/08/2020 10:27:28

Thread: ESCs...for beginners - please keep it simple
11/08/2020 18:16:06

Ridiculously over-cautious seeing it was written in November 2018.

I now charge my high C rating cells (mostly  70C Thunder Power ones) at 4C. Thunder Power say 12C is ok. I tried it a couple of times and they stay  at  ambient temperature.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/08/2020 18:23:57

Thread: What has happened to i.c. engines?
11/08/2020 17:18:55
Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 11/08/2020 15:55:58:

Yeh, let’s blame the government, club committees, BMFA and those malevolent and irresponsible drone fliers!

Let’s also openly announce our intention to ignore the law and risk a fine but perhaps saving 9 quid to buy a cheap servo or, maybe, a Chicken Balti with Pilau Rice and a Plain Nan?

And let us never accept responsibility for our personal actions or consider their possible effects on others.

Vive le revolution!

😊

Government:: They introduced this futile 'registration'. Futile? yes. Nobody who intends to break the flying rules will put an identifying number on the aircraft.

Clubs: The BMFA does not demand you put the number on the plane so BMFA registered clubs shouldn't either. We fly on Forestry Commission land and the FC has said that if we feel there is a problem with people not registering and we wish to report it we should call the CAA or whatever, and NOT the FC.

Takeaway orl icence? A purely personal decision. Only those who have never stolen an apple as a child, exceeded the speed limit, or cycled at night without lights should criticise any decision you make.

Personal responsibility? Of course. You don't have to tell us, thank you very much. But 'hands up' those who have signed a chit saying they would be responsible citizens in all circumstances.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/08/2020 17:21:32

11/08/2020 10:37:58
Posted by kc on 11/08/2020 10:20:12:

I said everyone who is in my club had registered with CAA . We don't agree with the law but are all law abiding citizens. The lawbreakers will bring aeromodelling into disrepute. We should advise the authotities of any aeromodeller who deliberately breaks the law by flying and deliberately not registering..........

It's good that none of. you have ever broken the speed limit. What fine fellows you all are.

Snitching on other flyers is a fine example to us all.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/08/2020 10:43:18

11/08/2020 10:16:10

"What the hell has happened"

Things change is all. Some for the better, some for the worse. As it's MY money and nobody else's I also rely on MY opinion and nobody else's I don't spend my money on the 'worse' (eg foamies and ARTFs of any kind) bur I do buy the 'better'. I don't care about 'value for money', only about. 'good'.

Registration? It's just more futile government bureaucracy. Futile because most people of malevolent intent won't register. The wiser ones might because then they can practice their future malevolence without being fined or arrested. Neither will put their registration on their aircraft when actually perforning malevolent acts, rendering registration totally pointless for everyone.

Did I register? Yes, Because our somewhat authoritarian club committee, elected only   because  they were the only ones willing to be on the committee,  insist on it.  I personally think It's less hassle to pay the £9 than argue with them. I certainly didn't register because I am any kind of 'law abiding citizen'. 

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/08/2020 10:27:18

Thread: The Restorers
08/08/2020 12:37:02
Posted by paul d on 07/08/2020 17:06:27:

He'll probably offer you twenty quid but try and sell it for 2 grand after his band of bodgers have dragged there knuckles over it.

Thread: How much have you spent on modeling in 2020?
08/08/2020 02:06:59
Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 06/08/2020 13:47:26:
Posted by Brian Cooper on 06/08/2020 11:52:12:

Hey, it's a hobby. . . Who keeps exact records of the expense? surprise

Me, otherwise i risk spending beyond my means!

I have a credit card card (mostly used only for my online purchases) but I arranged for it to be paid off in full every month by bank direct debit. It's the only 'finance' I ever use. I run my 'financial affairs' such that there is both always enough in the bank to pay both this, monthly stuff such as council tax, and for the bank's magic money machine to pay out up its standard daily limit.

Toy planes this year? The only expenditure I've made in 2020 is a Warbirds Spitfire kit at £159, which I probably won't start until October when the river trout fishing season ends. I've got enough model; 'stock' such as glow fuel, glue for repairs, frequent day to day flying, build the Spitfire to 90% complete, etc already and it was all purchased in 2019 so I don't visualise any further expenditure. Far less than usual but I've got too many planes already.

Early next year? A Laser 70 for the Spitfire if you've got it in stock at the time I want it. If not OS or the landlord of the local pub will get the money .

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 08/08/2020 02:09:26

Thread: FCC proposes $2.8m fine against Hobbyking for marketing non-compliant drone transmitters
06/08/2020 18:45:01
Posted by Kim Taylor on 06/08/2020 18:25:29:
Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 15:01:20:
, I did buy two brand new Harleys. I was also influenced by though very expensive they are made by people who are paid real wages.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 15:05:52

Hopefully not the ones that they manufacture in India then!!

Kim

No

I don't think the Indian made models are very successful being little different from Japanese-made mid size 'cruiser' type bikes..

Harley has problems (yet again). The big ones, though far more technically advanced than they appear and brilliant at what they are designed to do, sell to a declining and ageing customer set, myself included, and are too expensive for anyone except the 'dedicated'.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 18:46:05

Thread: The Restorers
06/08/2020 15:35:39
Posted by Peter Miller on 06/08/2020 14:57:07:

I have now watched the whole thing.

What a load of......

I shall never waste time watching "The restorers" again

Oh! Can I interest anyone in buying some of my models at a give away price of £750 each!!! No restoration needed!!!

Edited By Peter Miller on 06/08/2020 14:58:19

Naah. You are not as famous as Boddington.

Who for some unknown reason suddenly 'rose without trace' fully formed and without even wearing a dress held together with safety pins

Thread: Biplane build required
06/08/2020 15:22:07
Posted by Nigel R on 06/08/2020 14:32:09:

Simple answer - no struts!

I personally don't see any point building non-scale biplanes and most have struts.

If ever I build another one it will be a Sopwith Camel. Because the author of the best war flying book ever written, 'Winged Victory',  an anti-war semi-autobiography,  flew a Camel.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 15:24:39

Thread: FCC proposes $2.8m fine against Hobbyking for marketing non-compliant drone transmitters
06/08/2020 15:01:20
Posted by Barrie Lever on 06/08/2020 09:45:48:

Steve

You are correct there and I do notice some more enlightened people altering their purchase decisions.

We don't need to stop importing from China, just greatly reduce the unequal trade balance and keep them in check on regulatory conformance which is really what this whole thread is about.

I would prefer to be a free and poor man rather than be a minion dictated to by the CPC.

B.

Trade is now global whether we like it not. I do like it. Though as much Chinese stuff is of doubtful quality I rarely buy it and also look to avoid 'hidden' though perfectly legitimate (ie not fake Chinese rip offs) Chinese manufacture with European and US names where the European/US manufacturer has contracted manufacture to China but charges Western prices.

However, as the totally independently written book 'Well Made in America' about quality using Harley-Davidson after its management buyout and successful revival  in the 1980s as the core of the book, has been standard reading for years where I work, I did buy two brand new  Harleys. I was also influenced by though very expensive they are made by people who are paid real wages.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 15:05:52

Thread: Biplane build required
06/08/2020 14:18:05
Posted by Nigel R on 06/08/2020 14:01:04:

I'm aiming for just three wing bolts and one servo plug on my current build. I think that's probably an ok level of faff.

I did consider going with elastic bands for the wings, they're also low on faff.

I find struts are the main hassle. Even if they are not required for strength they have to be bolted on so they don't fall off or come loose and poke a hole in the wing.

The only biplane I have so far made is the Flair SE5 and I didn't think to hinge them on the lower wing so there would be less bolts and they would fold.

06/08/2020 13:58:09
Posted by Eric Robson on 06/08/2020 10:34:15:
Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 05:42:21:

There are plenty on Outerzone. The 'Der Jager' is particularly pretty and the 'real' yellow one has a radial looking cowl though it actually had a flat four engine,

However.

You will only ever build one biplane as you will quickly find it's too much of a faff taking the wings on and off for transport .

I dis-agree with that Richard, I always make sure they will fit in the car fully rigged before I build one. My last biplane the Dennis Bryant Hawker Fury was touch and go 60" span it is a shoehorn job but fortunately I don't have to take anything off.

I could just get a fully assembled Flair SE5 in my previous car so I didn't buy the bigger and lovely ARTF silver and yellow Great Planes Stearman which I very much liked. and I know flies very well.

Now I've got a 'spur of the moment' purchased two seat car with an engine where the planes should go so everything has to go disassembled where a passenger would sit. Thankfully my wife, though supportive, isn't interested in watching toy planes.

And assembly of a biplane at the field is too much of a faff. Taking it apart afterwards when you want to go to the pub is even worse

Thread: Use Venturi effect for cooling air?
06/08/2020 12:43:07
Posted by Nigel R on 06/08/2020 08:17:51:

 

hi richard

1) hasn't answered the temperature related efficiency question

I mean, I'll state my POV; heat relates to power relates to I2R(approximately, because reactance etc), so at any given sensibly sized ESC the current will not affect junction temperature within ESC until a point on that curve where the power dissipation begins to rise rapidly due to nature of second order curve. Maybe you have a more sophisticated understanding, hardware isn't my speciality.

2) hasn't answered why you say it 'disguises' the inefficiency

Again, my POV, you just need to cool the device a certain amount. If you need X amount of cooling - in our case facilitated by airflow - to maintain a low enough junction temp that your ESC operates "efficiently" then, well, er, so what? Airflow isn't disguising anything; it is just a means of achieving an end. Again, maybe you can help me understand what I'm missing here, but this is the basic process the hardware guys at my work operate with.

3) ok - but that means that the ESC isn't sized correctly for the current

4) ok - but again means that the ESC isn't sized correctly for the current

Your example in the second post appears to concur with my reply to 3 & 4 above, as things relate to the ESC, ignoring the motor aspect of your setup.

Edited By Nigel R on 06/08/2020 08:19:41

1) Maybe because a superbeing in the sky in which some believe likes it that way

AFAIK that's the only 'deeper' answer that exists at present. I would add that there does not HAVE to be a 'reason' for things. Some things do have a reason but it's not essential. Believing a reason is essential is merely an artefact of human linear thinking. (EG: Having got ourselves stuck with the 'big bang' hypothesis we are now saddled with looking for a probably non-existent cause of it. We just can't help it.)

2)  I will try  again to   the best of my (limited) ability. The  cause of the heat is 1  above. It's inherent in the process and it occurs in the motor coils, which are internal. That heat conducts and radiates to the surface of  the motor It doesn't stop the process, which is constant and at a given current  and load stays unchanged whatever you do. That you pass the  conducted/radiated heat  to the air by fitting  a heatsink and letting air flow though it doesn't slow  the process as it can only deal with  what is the   effect of the process, not the process itself. It may stop the motor  from melting  but that's all,  it doesn't change point 1.

The 'proper' way to do this stuff is to not get into the  areas of operation  where  these unwanted  effects become significant, which is where I started. Cut your hole and be  happy

PS: I usea discarded inrunner EDF motor in my 65 inch Aeronca Sedan. They work fine on big props instead of  small fans  with the lower current  caused by the much smaller number of cells and  work in their  maximum  efficiency area so don't get hot.  The only way the air gets out on   mine is the little   slit where the 'real'  exhausts poke out.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 13:26:42

Thread: Essential RC's videos
06/08/2020 06:32:54
Posted by Dom (Essential RC) on 05/08/2020 22:41:58:

My second flight so far more fun in aerobatics. No doubt will take it to the slope or try to catch some thermals soon.

That was superb. I'm not particularly interested in the plane as I don't like foamies.

However

Your flying was excellent. It shows you are not 'scared' of model planes in the manner of "I might crash it" as unless something beyond your control breaks you won't and you know it. Many modellers never get to that stage.

The filming? Lovely scenery always in focus with a big depth of field, perfect colour balance, and no 'arty' stuff such as constant switches to slow motion or frequent 'stop motion' which so often causes the thing to become totally disjointed.

And above all the plane is not 'built to impress bystanders"

Cheers and thank you.

Thread: Biplane build required
06/08/2020 05:42:21

There are plenty on Outerzone. The 'Der Jager' is particularly pretty and the 'real' yellow one has a radial looking cowl though it actually had a flat four engine,

However.

You will only ever build one biplane as you will quickly find it's too much of a faff taking the wings on and off for transport .

Thread: Use Venturi effect for cooling air?
06/08/2020 04:45:50
Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 05/08/2020 16:59:17:
Posted by Nigel R on 05/08/2020 11:10:17:
Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 05/08/2020 03:30:44:

Unlike an IC engine an electric motor and the ESC should run no more than 'warm' as the efficiency is greatly reduced if it is hot. You are not trying to make a room heater.

And carrying that heat away with a strong airflow merely 'disguises' the heat caused inefficiency as the motor is still generating the heat you are carrying away.

So if the motor and/or the ESC is getting hot enough to need a lot of cooling you should look at the suitability of the motor, the prop size, the number of cells relevant to the prop size, and so on rather than trying to improve the cooling.

 

I'll keep an open mind.

I have several questions:

1) Can you explain how an ESC efficiency drops with temperature?

2) Can you explain how a strong airflow "disguises" this proposed inefficiency?

3) Can you explain why "number of cells relevant to the prop size" is a measurement worth investigating?

4) Can you explain why the power train design should be assumed to be at fault?

Here goes. I have numbered your questionw so it's simple to connect question and answer.

1) Unless 'superconducting' (Google is your friend) every electrical circuit has 'resistance' to the passage of electricity. This means the circuit wastes some of the electrical in heating itself which is not what you want.

2) The inefficiency is not "proposed", it is real and measurable. Having hopefully accepted 1 above it follows that passing the generated heat along to something else, in this instance the air has not stopped this heat being generated in the first place.

3) Given a fixed voltage (number of cells) and full throttle a given prop will cause a fixed load on the motor. You can s reduce this load (and thus heat) by using a smaller prop or less cells. And vice-versa of course.

4) It's not a fault it's the laws of the universe (as so far discovered). Some people understand them better than others so designs vary in competence.

ADDENDUM:

It all boils down to this: ALL heating in electrical systems other than those specifically deaigned to produce heat is a sure sign of inefficiency, be that inefficiency small as in FETs, or big, as in a badly matched motor, propellor, and supply voltage combination.

EG: My Black Horse 90m fan 55 inch span 10 cell high power EDF ViperJet.

First try - Hacker B50 14L inrunner motor, OS 1100HV ESC. Thrust at full power 9 pounds, 'cruising around' duration 7 minutes. Motor hot even with a heatsink, ESC 'warmer than I would like'.

Second try - Hacker E50L 2D inrunner motor, (3mm larger diameter and 20mm longer than the B50 above), Kontronik Jive Pro ESC. Thrust at full power 10 pounds, cruise duration 10 minutes, no motor heatsink, motor and ESC slightly above ambient temperature.

Notes: (1) If your ESC is getting  as hot as you say  it either doesn't use FETs or something is badly wrong. (2) Though specified to run at a high maximum current or wattage  motors are far more efficient with less - the B50 above was being driven too hard,

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 06/08/2020 05:09:27

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