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Member postings for Andy Gates

Here is a list of all the postings Andy Gates has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Basic 3D
22/11/2011 17:15:38
The right and down thrust are as per the plan which is approx 3 degrees or 1/8" displacement so it must be an optical illusion.
Because it is not IC powered, I fitted the motor centrally in the vertical plane and offset to the left (see the smaller former) which places the prop smack in line with the centre of the F1 former.
1/4" wing seat is not needed since I have no dowels to hold the bands down and also with it being bolted I do not need the additional thickness to reduce lower wing damage.
No 1/4" seat helps reduce the weight.
The ply doubler has been ftted for strength in the fuselage forward section and does not add much weight because it is so thin.
Leading edge was not much different to the plan.
I fitted a strip of 1/8" x 1/4" balsa through 1/8" wide 1/4" deep slots in the fronts of the ribs in a central position to add some support to hold the ribs in position and to add strength.
The rib profile was moved forward slightly so I could use 3/8" balsa for the LE.
Upper and lower sheeting was butt joined behind the LE balsa before sanding down the LE to shape.
I still consider that I am just adding my spin to an existing design to suit my needs, as opposed to a design.
Thanks for the thought though and many thanks for the corny name Steve, the effort is appreciated.
I have one machine in my collection which I would declare as my own design but the plan is too poor for publication in my opinion.
It has been suggested that I sort the plan out for publishing, but I built it for sentimental reasons so I do not feel happy sorting it out right now. Maybe at a later date.
That design and build thread is found here

Edited By Andy Gates on 22/11/2011 17:16:36

21/11/2011 21:00:11
Now the hatch
in situ

the cover

the reinforcement and where the tongue goes.

Wing bolts

and the fastening plate at the back of the bay

and finally the front wing & hatch retainer

Edited By Andy Gates on 21/11/2011 21:12:56

21/11/2011 20:57:08
Here goes, photos.
1st off "that" undercarriage
in pieces.
The sandwich

half way in

all the way in

I hope those explain the system I have used.

Edited By Andy Gates on 21/11/2011 21:11:17

21/11/2011 18:23:10
Answers to the questions
1. Yes & no
Sorry could not resist.
U/C is push fit, the ply sandwich being a tight fit in the box described in previous posting, so no further catch is required. Never yet had one of these systems drop out.
Front former is as per the plan in size and location with the plan amount of side and down thrust. A very slight tweak may be needed after a thorough testing but so far not noticable.
I did add a second layer of ply on the front face to increase the thickness for the motor retention screws to have a better grip. Motor wires come out of F1 below the motor.
The battery access is as you guessed, the front hatch is the front part of the cover above the space between F1 & F2, the rearmost part left attached to the plane and reinforced with a small piece of triangle balsa beween it and F2 which holds the front of the wing in place.
The hatch is held at the rear by a tongue and at the front by a spring latch locating in a small blind hole in the back of F1.
My 3000mAH lipo does require it to go through F2 which has been adjusted to fit. F2 is a 4 piece balsa item not the sheet item shown.
Rear of the wing is held by plastic bolts, they fit into a 1/8" ply plate fixed to the fuselage with epoxy between the fuselage sides and attached to F3.
The plate has 2 holes drilled and tapped to suit the bolts. These threaded holes have been strengthened with thin CA after tapping, and retapped again after the CA has orked its way into the py.
Fuselage doublers are fitted as per the plan from VERY thin ply 1/64" or 1/32"
Wing ribs again as per the plan from 1/16" balsa with the tip rib and the first 3 ribs on each panel from 1/8" balsa.
All ribs capped with 1/16" capping strips top and bottom except the area shown on the inboard sections which are fully sheeted.
Webs from vertical 1/16" balsa throughout, first 2 bays having the webs on both sides of the spars.
Wing servos I glued straight to the rib with the splined section abover the rib cap, added 1/16" sheet around the servo on non rib side to give the covering somethig to attach to.
My bird could be lighter with the use of film covering all over, but I had some solatex to hand so I used that on the wings and tail feathers.
I will post some more pictures to help the explanations.
Thread: choosing first electric flight build
20/11/2011 19:44:57
I would also suggest the Piwakawaka.
Nice and small for carrying, stunning performance from relatively cheap components and will handle winds up to 20mph as long as the pilot is up to the job.
I have a short thread here and a couple of photos in the BIMBO's thread.
Relatively easy build, quite strong and I used to get 20 mins out of a 2250mAH 3s pack.
Go for it!
Thread: Basic 3D
20/11/2011 19:25:13
I would say give it a shot.
I really got attached to mine today although some did not believe me when I told them how much it weighed until I put it in their hands.
Re the u/c, mine just slides into the slot underneath the fuselage, no fixings required and fitted after covering as you describe. Had to remove it to get it into the car with the other 3 planes today.
True I live in Essex but I do not belong to any club.
I find the club scene quite frustrating with too much politics and not enough safe enjoyable flying.
I prefer to fly with groups of like minded modellers who want to fly and have safe fun, none of the "my machine is better than yours" or the keeping up with the Joneses.
I look for comradeship and a warm friendly atmosphere, devoid of hassle and officialdom.
As I stated in the earlier post, I fly from the space of 2 football fields attached to a park which is surrounded with obstructions, buildings, a hillock and trees. This bird not only goes up but also comes down quite safely within this space.
Where abouts are you? Maybe we could meet up sometime so you can see my bird fly for yourself? I think that would compel you to build this.
If you have not seen instructions like that before, just wait until you see the kit.
Stunning, can be put together in your hands without glue.
Amazingly light and great performance from a fairly basic set up, totally suited to park flying.

Edited By Andy Gates on 20/11/2011 19:28:40

20/11/2011 17:32:33
Aw, thanks for the compliment but it is really me just adding my own spin on the origional excellent design.
I have learned to build to fly not to build to survive crashes, beieve me it makes a whol world of difference to the planes performance.
As to the landing gear it is neither and both.
Let me describe it.
First off it is 2 separate legs, the upper hidden part has a 90 degree bend in the top just under 25mm or 1" from the end.
The u/c sandwich is made up of 3 pieces of 1/8" birch ply all identical in size.
The width is the size of the fuselage inside the doublers.
The height is around 25mm or 1".
The central piece of the sandwich has cut outs for the tops of the legs going from the outside corners inwards about 45 degree angle, with the top of the leg bends being inserted about 5mm from the top edge.
The sandwich is then fixed with layers of epoxy holding the sandwich together and surrounding the upper legs. Once dry a fine sanding to maintain the shape.
The mounting in the fuselage is a tight fitting 1/8" balsa box with sheet triangle reinforcements attached to the doublers to hold the front panel in place. Rear part of the box is the lower section of F2.
Have a look at the RV4 instruction manual at Stevens Aero which will show better than I can describe.
Tested the flying quallities of this properly today.
Flies better than I planned for, without using the flaperons I could get her down to a slow walking pace still in full control. Amazing.
She was the first bird to fly as the fog was almost lifting.
White wings are not the best colour for flying in fog, but since I can fly her close in there was not too much of an issue, just a very intense concentration not to loose sight of her in the mirk.
Yell if you need more info or pictures

Edited By Andy Gates on 20/11/2011 17:35:27

19/11/2011 22:44:10
I modded this one to be light KC.
Most of the time I fly from football fields so I need a light quick rise slow fly plane.
The wing is actually a mixture of both wing shapes, I built the wings to the short wing plan but as a 2 piece wing, a 1/8" ply full depth wing joiner running between the upper and lower spars with 1/16" webs between on both sides for the 1st 3 ribs. The spars are 1/8" x 1/4" spruce mounted vertically.
The wing tips are from 1/8" balsa and run to the wide wing tip pattern but squared off and supported by 2 triangular wedges on top and 1 underneath.
Sides are 3/32" balsa, longerons are 3/32" balsa, no ply other than F1 (1/8") and a 3 x 1/8" ply sandwich to hold my modified landing gear.
Motor was aquired from Giant Cod, it is a 2826/5 on a 12 x 6 APC E prop. This runs on a 3S 3000mAH pack for around 15 mins.
Thread can be found on another forum here

Edited By Andy Gates on 19/11/2011 22:47:24

Thread: Rhapsody 25e - pack c ratings?
19/11/2011 22:25:02
I agree with fly boys method of measuring the CoG.
Measure with the plane upright, suspend the machine from the underside of the top wing on the right spot.
Thread: Identify connectors.
19/11/2011 22:15:57
From reading your post, it sounds like the connections you are making are correct.
The description you gave of the motor reactions sounds like the ESC needs to be programmed correctly for an outrunner motor with hard timing.
Check the instructions and get the ESC programmed.
Thread: Basic 3D
19/11/2011 17:33:16
Agreed KC
Flew mine again today, multiple times.
Seems that I can't land this badly even when missing a wheel!
Control responses are sharp yet gentle.
18/11/2011 22:09:08
Sorry to resurect an old thread but I have now built one of these superb machines.
I was looking for a replacement for my worn out and distressed Piwakawaka and found this plan in my collection.
For those not famliar with the Piwakawaka, it is a small highy aerobatic electric powered machine designed to be easily packed way for holidays and that sort of thing.
It has taken 2 weeks of evenings to build, mine is electric powered and weighs under 3 1/2 lbs. The undercarriage has been modified to a pattern used by StevensAeros.
So far I have only flown her 3 times but she slows down beautifully for landing and stops in about 5 yards .
I am looking forwards to wringing her out a little more over this weekend.


Edited By Andy Gates on 18/11/2011 22:29:31

Thread: Wing Washout, what do you think?
18/11/2011 20:39:11
Study the history of the full size Spitfire wing.
This indeed did have a significant amount of washout built into the wing to stop the tip stalling out, and this machine was well recieved in terms of its stalling charecteristics.
From memory ( and I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong) I seem to recall it having about an 8 degree difference from root to tip.
Thread: Rhapsody 25e - pack c ratings?
18/11/2011 20:19:51
Assuming your set up will not pull the 60 amps on the speed controller (you will need to test this on the ground with a watt meter before you fly), then the next bit of info you need to look at is the C rating on each of your packs.
The C rating gives an indicaton of the maximum current the pack can supply.
So lets start with your 4000mAH pack.
For a 60 amp draw, your pack will be running at 15C
(60A / 4000mA or 60 / 4)
The other packs
3300mAH will be running at approx 18C (60A / 3300mA)
2800mAH at 60A / 2800mA or 21.5C
So if your 2 bigger packs are 20C or better then they will be fine, same goes for your 2800mAH pack if it is 20C or above.
Now bare in mind that flying style will also have some influence.
To prop hang you will possibly be using your packs near their limit, gentle cruising you will be no where near the limit except maybe at take off or in vertical aeros.
Extra capacity as you have guessed will give you longer flights.

Edited By Andy Gates on 18/11/2011 20:22:18

Thread: buddy hitec 2.4 to futaba
18/11/2011 20:00:18
No problems - do i all the time.
I have even tried with a Futaba square connection and that wored fine too
Thread: MK22 Spitfire
07/11/2011 21:06:17
What month 2003, I may have a copy which I can check for the CoG for you.
Thread: Help, she is going to kill me
04/11/2011 19:47:38
If you are modelling on the dining table, then do as I do and slowly add more and more stuf and lots of balsa dust. Can't see the stain at all.
My wife has requested that the dining room table puts in an appearance for christmas......
Thread: Wot4e Mk.2 Electric (wood version)
29/10/2011 19:35:27
OK, you could still remove the tailwheel and use a skid.
Maybe the already fitted mechanism could be adapted by cutting the wheel hook off and slightly rebending the leg drop.
That should save on the nose weight a bit.
Heavier wheels may help as would a heavier spinner, maybe an aluminium one.
Is there sufficient space for 2 battery packs in the nose? Connect them in parallel for longer flight time and less stress on the battery. If you got to carry weight it might as well be usefull weight.
If you have not yet purchased a motor, how about something a little larger and heavier than required. You can always throttle back in flight.
29/10/2011 15:58:03
Is the CoG really off?
If so bulid the back end light and make the front end heavy or extend the front to compensate allowing the heavier components to go further forwards.
Place the servos as far forwards as possible and use light control connections (try closed loop instead of pushrods).
Does it have a tail wheel? If so try using a skid instead.
If it is a new build plane, then I would say it is certainly worth it, especially if it is a freebe.
Good luck.
Thread: Should I give up on flying this model?
29/10/2011 15:50:21
Sorry to hear of the demise of your model.
When flying, how about avoiding the sun in the first place?
If we are flying high level circuits, why not shorten the down wind leg to not fly into the sun, or fly a bit higher or lower?
If we are looking at the approach to landing, why not make the final downwind turn a bit too long so rather than a 90 degree turn we make it a 135 degree and come in at 45 degrees to the strip rather than 90 degrees. This means the final turn will be lower than normal but only 45 degrees so avoiding the sun again.
After all we control the plane don't we, we can't control the sun or wind.
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