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Member postings for PatMc

Here is a list of all the postings PatMc has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Does your club prohibit the use of after-market receivers?
22/03/2019 20:43:44
Posted by Don Fry on 22/03/2019 17:28:29:
Posted by PatMc on 22/03/2019 13:46:58:
Posted by kc on 22/03/2019 11:05:44:

Some clubs have completely different types of flying sites to others. Any club in an urban area flying in a public park with houses all around and roads alongside will need to be much more careful to avoid problems than a club flying miles from houses and surrounded only by fields. Hence the rules may need to be different.

It's so easy to import a Rx direct from China which may have been tried and found OK or it might be completely unproven in UK. You probably cannot afford to experiment to see if mixed makes cause any problems if you are a club in an urban environment. But in a club flying miles from any member of the public you might be able to experiment safely with an untried combination of Rx and Tx.

Edited By kc on 22/03/2019 11:06:47

The law is the same wherever your club is. The same level of diligence is universally applicable.

But in all fairness PatMc, I have a scannned area, not smaller than 500 m by 500 m, in front of me where I can crash in safety, and in practice bigger than that but not scanned. I appreciate KC's point. Some areas are a bit tighter, and need a rule or two to minimise risk. Still not accepting that blanket bans on the likes of Orange and Lemon is justified.

Don, the ANO states "The remote pilot of a small unmanned aircraft may only fly the aircraft if reasonably satisfied that the flight can be safely made." IMO that covers the whole range of flying sites.

Thread: Fuse
22/03/2019 19:37:40
Posted by Don Fry on 22/03/2019 16:57:05:

PatMc, I've been toying with building a flat field soarer, is a 100s type much better than an Orange Box type. I would like a casual low key machine, probably with a motor on the front. Plan build. Not a great investment in time.

Edited By Don Fry on 22/03/2019 16:57:29

Don, from the performance POV the greater the wingspan the better.
When I previously mentioned 6ft span being good it was with David's lack of building & presumably flying experience in mind. IMO 6ft is about the minimum span generally for a decent thermal performance & visibility but about the max size for the other factors mentioned.

A 100" span glider would be a step change in overall performance & flexibility compared to a 6ft span. Mind you if I was considering scratch building a 100" sports thermal glider I'd go to 108"+tips span as balsa wood comes in 3ft lengths. wink 2
Ooh - it would also have an electric motor up front driven by 3s lipos.

Edited By PatMc on 22/03/2019 19:38:46

22/03/2019 14:22:59

IMO around 6ft span is the best size for decent performance, visibility & ease of build matched to bouncability.

The Orangebox plan downloadable here is a good example, they are simple to build, robust, good control & have a decent performance.
Personally I'd make a couple of simple mods. I'd make the wings 2 piece for ease of storage & transporting. Also I'd change the fin & rudder to have a vertical hinge line in order to have a sensible horn linkage & for aesthetics.

Thread: Crash resistant electric motor mounting suggestions please
22/03/2019 14:04:32

Alan, I just realised that the motor I gave the link for is front mounted only when using a prop saver. But the prop savers are sometimes included with other small motors. They are also available as accessories from as Hobbyking & other retailers in several shaft sizes.

Thread: Does your club prohibit the use of after-market receivers?
22/03/2019 13:46:58
Posted by kc on 22/03/2019 11:05:44:

Some clubs have completely different types of flying sites to others. Any club in an urban area flying in a public park with houses all around and roads alongside will need to be much more careful to avoid problems than a club flying miles from houses and surrounded only by fields. Hence the rules may need to be different.

It's so easy to import a Rx direct from China which may have been tried and found OK or it might be completely unproven in UK. You probably cannot afford to experiment to see if mixed makes cause any problems if you are a club in an urban environment. But in a club flying miles from any member of the public you might be able to experiment safely with an untried combination of Rx and Tx.

Edited By kc on 22/03/2019 11:06:47

The law is the same wherever your club is. The same level of diligence is universally applicable.

Thread: Crash resistant electric motor mounting suggestions please
21/03/2019 22:20:11

IMO it's pointless trying to make a model crash proof & a lightweight model like the Mam'selle isn't likely to sustain much preventable damage even in quite a tumble anyway. However the motor shaft & prop often bear the brunt of any hard "arrival". As previously mentioned this can be avoided by using a folding prop but a simpler method for a low power model would be a "prop saver", only real downside is that you won't have a nice spinner.
Here's a link that illustrates & explains them.

Some motors come with a prop saver as one of the included extras these Keda motors for example. In fact the 2217/16 would probably be a good match for the Mam'selle.

Thread: Fuse
21/03/2019 21:28:46

What Bob described in pictures :

kk_dt.jpg

Thread: NEW POLL - Does your club have a safety officer, or is the emphasis on individual members to each be their own safety officer?
21/03/2019 21:15:01

IMO it's not the safety officer's job to be the club safety policeman. His job should be one of observing & reporting on any unsafe or potentially unsafe actions, procedures or scenarios. Also if possible offering advice towards preventing re-occurrence.

All members should be active in preventing &/or stopping unsafe situations occurring.

Sometimes people create dangerous situations without being aware of it, a quiet word will usually have more effect than a perceived rollicking or angry outburst.

Edited By PatMc on 21/03/2019 21:18:43

Thread: Does your club prohibit the use of after-market receivers?
21/03/2019 19:04:13

If your club bans aftermarket Rx's & you have any just use them but don't advertise the fact. Who's to know ?

PS if there are any firmware changes/upgrades available for your Tx consider whether you will gain any benefit from them & if they might impinge on your choice of Rx before going ahead with them.  

Edited By PatMc on 21/03/2019 19:08:03

Thread: Small spinner/prop selection.
20/03/2019 18:23:51

This offset hinge type spinner might be what you need. You would probably have to change the prop blades if you want the same dia as you have. Actually if you check you might find that with your current prop/spinner assembly the prop is greater than 9" when the blades are extended.

20/03/2019 11:42:02

Depends what your motor shaft dia is but the white plastic+ali ones here are shorter profile.

Thread: Lidl Bandsaw
19/03/2019 23:25:25

Picked up a Lidl bandsaw today, haven't opened the box & assembled it yet. Will be selling my Burgess 3 wheeler with spare blades & various extras in the near future.

I'd already called in at Aldi & bought a cordless electric screwdriver, Lidl had exactly the same item with the same interchangeable heads but in a different case for the same price - £19.99.

Whilst at Aldi (Blyth, Northumberland) I noticed they had several of their scroll saws for sale (I think they were at £49.99) but I didn't pay too much notice of them as I already have a decent scroll saw.

Thread: Folding prop size
17/03/2019 23:46:08

The 3.17mm shaft size is often stated as 3.2mm. Robotbirds have a range of spinners that might be worth looking at - they are catalogued in quite a haphazard manner though.

17/03/2019 23:05:03

 

  The Keda is mounted the same way as a can motor but the screw centres will be different as it's smaller. Here's my build blog of Amigo which includes some pics of the motor mounting details.

When I bought the motor I also got the KD2217/20 860kv version, this is intended to power one of these , which I haven't got round to building yet. The lower kv will allow me to use a bigger dia prop which should produce more thrust. Although the Introduction is a lot bigger than the Amigo at 2.8m span it should be about the same RTF weight therefore a lower glide speed.
IMO the 860kv motor will probably suit your 2,4m better as well.

This photo from the blog shows the channel I made in the nose block to accommodate the wires past the motor. The channel is in a bottom corner where there's more space as the nose width is quite narrow. 

023.jpg 

Since your model had a 600 size motor there should have more room than the Amigo. 

Edited By PatMc on 17/03/2019 23:20:36

17/03/2019 20:18:51

Phil, is there any reason you want a slow climb ?

I mainly fly E-gliders & always try to limit the power on time to 25 - 35 secs then hunt for lift, more or less emulating tow line launching. The climb is fast enough to get the model to useful thermal detecting altitude in that power burst time. This way if any signs of lift are spotted before launch the model can be sent up to the area quickly. I usually use lipos with sufficient capacity for 6 - 8 power bursts simply to save messing about changing batteries too often,

The motor you have seems a bit small for a 2.4m glider (unless it's extremely light) & as has been said the high KV means it can't use a prop that will provide much thrust.
The latest glider I've built is a vintage Graupner Amigo that I modified to take a nose mounted 71g motor. The Amigo is 2m span, RTF weight is 930g with a 3s 1400 lipo or 900g with a 3s 700 lipo fitted, prop is a 9x5 folder, initial power 165W. The motor I use is this 1050 kv one the spec is given here.
One incidental benefit was that I had a couple of folding prop with spinner sets left over from 600 can brushed motor days & the shaft dia (3.17mm) of the Keda motor was identical. Simply changing the dubious original prop blades for Graupner 9x5 blades saved a bit of cost.

17/03/2019 17:56:48
Posted by David Hall 9 on 17/03/2019 10:41:00:

To add.... the reason for the choice of a 2s installation for smallish gliders (<2.5m) is, for many, to allow the whole system (RX, servos,esc) to run at battery voltage without a BEC. This will enable a very small ESC to be used...as saving weight and (I'm told) reducing the number of failure points in the system.

I don't see that using 2s without a BEC would save any weight, In fact using 2s the ESC would have to have a higher current rating compared with using 3s for the same power. It's more likely that a higher current rated ESC would increase the weight, albeit by a small amount.

Thread: How to reduce voltage?
16/03/2019 14:31:19

Each diode connected in parallel would reduce the level of voltage drop.

15/03/2019 21:55:46

If you connected another load to the power supply in parallel with the charger this would reduce the voltage. From the OP it sounds like you have another charger, possibly this would provide enough load to drop the voltage below the limit required.

Edited By PatMc on 15/03/2019 21:56:30

Thread: Gone,but not forgotten kit mfg
15/03/2019 21:42:24
Posted by Andrew Ray on 15/03/2019 20:32:52:
Posted by Bob Cotsford on 15/03/2019 10:58:32:

Anyone remember the big St Leonards Models kits? There was a 120" thermal soarer, fibreglass fus and built up wing, was it the SuperNova? My first taste of what a good soarer was like.

Jim Baguely of free flight fame. I don't remember the fibreglass fuselage but I am building a 124" one with the wooden fuselage and changing the wing joiner to a flat steel strip, I thought the design was quite clever, very light with the 1/16" x 1/2" spruce spars at the surface butted up to the D box sheeting The free flight heritage very much evident in the design.

Andrew, the 1/16 x 1/4 spruce spars are not up to the job, they rely on the vertical 1/16 balsa webs. Trouble is the wings flex under load which stresses the joints between the web & spar. There just isn't enough glue area on these joints [also I suspect the glue doesn't penetrate such a thin spruce edge] This can result in the webs becoming popping of the spars which are too thin to take the stress so collapse.

15/03/2019 20:16:21
Posted by Bob Cotsford on 15/03/2019 19:42:59:
Posted by Capt Kremen on 15/03/2019 12:41:02:

Yep, 'SuperNova' - Red G/F fuz and built up wings with two wire joiners, all-moving tailplane. Very good flat-field flier and off the slope too.

'two wire joiners' - it always looked about ready to clap hands on a windy day going up at the end of a bungee, there was a definite un-clenching moment when it finally released!

Actually there were 3 wires, all in brass tubes - a 10SWG fixed to a spruce reinforcing spar that was fixed to the LE, another 10SWG between spruce reinforcing pieces fixed to the main spar & a 16swg incidence keeper just ahead of the TE. The 10 swg wires in my kit were loose fits in the tubes - so loose that I sourced tubes that fitted before I built the model.

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