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Member postings for avtur

Here is a list of all the postings avtur has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Virgin aircraft about to attempt crash landing
30/12/2014 03:00:43
Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 29/12/2014 17:42:37:

...... However, many other flights involving thousands of passengers are being diverted elsewhere and there's a suggestion the 747 will be moved 'sometime this evening'. What's it costing every other airline?smile o

Pete you are quite correct this is going to cost a fortune and thousands of passengers travelling in and out of Gatwick have been inconvenienced. The reality is that this was the least worst option, that's a real shame for all those caught up in this but sadly thats life in the aviation business.

Having worked in commercial aviation for over 25 years I've perhaps become a little hardened to how things work, you would probably be surprised how/why operational decisions are made. Just be thankful that in % terms the number of passengers affected is very, very small, and hope that in future those long odds are always on your side.

30/12/2014 02:41:36
Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 29/12/2014 23:17:38:
Posted by Andrew Price 2 on 29/12/2014 18:58:51:

Lets think about an airfield kitted out with a fantastic emergency runway, say, 9000 ft long and 750 ft wide. We will staff the airfield emergency services with foam laying specialists. Lets call it RAF Manston!!

Er?? Whats that you say??

Mmm great idea, lets have a pilot with a damaged plane and high workload do an emergency landing at an airfield he's never landed at before. And for processing the returning passengers does Manston have the immigration personnel.

The point being made is that Manston would have been a totally viable alternative, one of the longest runways in the UK, had it not been closed earlier this year therefore no emergency response available. I'm not sure that familiarity with the airfield is an issue in this instance both are long runways at near sea level height with no high ground to impede approach; both are therefore quite straight forward in this respect.

In the scale of things the lack of immigration personnel would have been a minor consideration in dealing with this event, had Manston still been operational.

Whatever airport was chosen to receive this flight it was always going to be the case that there would be huge implications for airport operations. I can only imagine it was tossed around like a hot potatoe but Gatwick was chosen as being the least worst option. Certainly consequences of airport disruption could be anticipated, but without doubt Gatwick was chosen for being less disruptive than alternatives.

Edited By avtur on 30/12/2014 02:46:13

Thread: Have a Rant
29/12/2014 18:26:25

City Link ... what a trick to play announcing 'going administration' on Christmas Day.

Feel sorry for the employees, the best they can hope for is to receive statutory redundancy (probably funded by the tax payer).

Thread: Virgin aircraft about to attempt crash landing
29/12/2014 17:40:59
Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 29/12/2014 15:56:37:

Down safely but begs the question why land at an airport with one runway?disgust


Not many choices really, Heathow may have 2 runways but there's no way they would let the aircraft choose to land there; Gatwick may be chaotic as a result of this but Heathrow would have been many times worse for the loss of a runway.

The only other choice with 2 runways would be Manchester but then there would be logistical problem of looking after passengers, the Virgin operation at Gatwick is huge they have the resources to look after the passengers and get the aircraft fixed. Having an aircraft on the ground with serious tech problems at an airport without in house maintenance facilities makes life very difficult for the airline; sadly Gatwick was always going to get stuck with this problem

Glad it ended safely for all involved, the 747 has 16 mains wheels on four bogies, the loss of 4 wheels on one bogie leaves 75% of the equipment in tact, the 747 really is a tough old bird.


Edited By avtur on 29/12/2014 17:42:12

Thread: AirAsia disappearance
28/12/2014 17:57:40
Posted by scott finnie on 28/12/2014 17:27:36:

....... Its been a very eventful day for land, sea and air. You have a missing plane, sinking, burning vessel and 15,000 trapped in the Alps. I hope all make it home safe


Yes, makes you think doesn't it.

I'm glad to be tucked up in holiday cottage next to a beach in North Wales.

Hoping for the best outcome for those caught up in these unexpected events.

28/12/2014 17:08:41

Many, many years ago BEA and BOAC (showing my age!) jointly operated a flight training school at Hamble, wannabe pilots were recruited and trained at the airlines' cost ... those were the days.

These days there are so many wannabe pilots that airlines don't need to sponsor pilot training the way they used to, why would they when people are willing to fund their own training, no financial risk to the airline. That is what markets forces can do.

However this relates to how training costs are funded and (as AR states above) has no impact on the skill level required to pass the required training exams. The airlines do not control the exam requirements, that is for the likes of the CAA and other authorities around the would.

Another area where market forces also have an impact is in the salaries paid to pilots. At the moment there is an over supply of pilots so salaries (certainly starting salaries) are low. Speaking to commercial pilots used to be an everyday occurrence for me, I was surprised how low they were, I heard figures of barely £20k talked about.

With regard to the accident flight being discussed, the captain was said to have over 20,000 hours experience with over 7,000 hours on type, that is one very experienced pilot.

Edited By avtur on 28/12/2014 17:10:55

28/12/2014 10:26:47

Very sad for all involved.

All the media outlets turn to their 'pet' industry experts at times like this. These so called experts enjoy varied reputations for their credibility ... even amongst themselves.

Sadly its a matter of time passing and the facts becoming known.

Thread: Freeview Box Wanted
27/12/2014 17:29:01
Posted by Percy Verance on 27/12/2014 13:58:38:

Good spec on the Panasonic by the way. I've not seen a 1200 hertz refesh rate anywhere before........ The Sony I had my eye on has 800hz rate, which is probably more than enough. I guess these telly makers are in a constant battle to outgun each other though.......

I think you're right, it's a numbers game and they (manufacturers) rely on the fact that "some" consumers will always want the the very latest model with with the biggest numbers. Whether or not those numbers actually convert to a disernable difference in performance ... well thats the question.

I guess that's where the "canny" consumer can make an informed buying decision ... previous model at a lower price might offer 'good value' ..


Come to think of it the same 'might' be true for some of our modeling products ?



Edited By avtur on 27/12/2014 17:38:00

Thread: Has the world gone Mad !!
25/12/2014 02:10:42

As well as Boxing Day sales the BBC news this evening was reporting that on line sales on Christmas Day are expected to set a new record this year with 100's of millions of £'s being spent on line .... on Christmas Day !!!

Certainly not something I'll be doing but it sounds as though the Christmas morning sherry will cause many of our fellow citizens to go on line and get busy with their on-line shopping baskets.

As for Boxing Day we'll be off to the pantomime ... oh yes we will !!!


Edited By avtur on 25/12/2014 02:15:22

Thread: What do you do if a driver collapses?
23/12/2014 15:04:05

Firstly thoughts are with the families of those affected by the terrible accident accident in Glasgow.

I think the options for controlling any vehicle from the passenger seat are always going to be very limited and I'm not sure that all options can be prepared for; some problems have already been described. Many commercials have controls to the right of the driver which leaves steering the only control which could be influenced.

I think we just have to keep in mind (thankfully) that statistically such incidents are incredibly rare.

Edited By avtur on 23/12/2014 15:05:30

Thread: Quad Flying
23/12/2014 13:54:23

I agree with the open minded approach, I find the technology fascinating and look forward to watching it develop further.

There's no doubt this area of interest is growing far faster than any other discipline within our hobby, I'd much rather see an inclusive approach to new entrants which should help inform them about how and where to fly, both safely and within the law.

I've watched some multi rotor racing on You Tube and it looks incredible, these machines zipping through woodland with bright LED's in their tails look like something out of the movies ... Sadly I don't think my reactions and coordination is up to that sort of performance but it's fascinating to watch.

Also watching the TV I'd have to believe that multi rotors are being adopted very quickly to be used as camera platforms.

Edited By avtur on 23/12/2014 13:55:37

Thread: Replacement Car
18/12/2014 17:55:35
Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 18/12/2014 14:23:31

.........., you need to take a tape measure with you when buying the car, when I bought my last car I confused the salesman by wanting to measure the load space before even taking a test drive wink

My last six cars have all had to pass a "will it carry this" test .... the only way to be certain is to try the item ... a dog crate ... in the car; the crate is sized to carry our two four legged friends.

I remember checking out a Jaguar X type estate car (as a possible new company car), the crate wouldn't fit, I didn't even sit in the car, the salesman was quite surprised. Then, to add insult to injury, I went into the Volvo showroom next door where I did a Cinderella type fitting of the dog crate in the rear of a V70 estate ... which I promptly ordered!; it turned out to be a brilliant load carrier.

Can't beat estate cars IMHO ....

Edited By avtur on 18/12/2014 17:58:07

Thread: FPV Spanky on the Rocks
15/12/2014 14:59:48

That was brilliant ... great the way the quarry equipment provided all the challenges to be flown under, over and around ... looks like a lot of fun !!

Thread: baa ... humbug ...
15/12/2014 14:46:18

I think I'm generally quite a sociable type but I must admit I do find it hard to get into the Christmas spirit, I think the commercial side of the celebration has got way out of hand.

However a couple of days ago I was forced to confront the on set of Christmas ... and if I'm honest I quite enjoyed it.

My older daughter is a primary school teacher, the school had decided to take all pupils (nearly 250) to a pantomime. They were short of parent helpers (there is a ratio they have to meet) so I volunteered ... well I'm I'm a parent ... all be it of a teacher rather than pupil ...

So we were packed into several coaches and off we went to see Cinderella at the Plaza Theatre in Stockport ... I had nine year 4 pupils to keep my eye on.

The main character was played by Ted Robbins and I have to admit I thoroughly enjoyed it ... "oh yes I did" ... "oh no ... ..." well you know how it goes ... its probably 20 years since I last went to a pantomime ...

The performance started at 10am, which by adult standards is rather early, however the 1200 + children weren't bothered ... and as for the noise that so many children can generate when encouraged by Mr Robbins to make as much noise as possible ... well it must have been off the scale ...

I have to say the experience has managed to get me in to the Christmas spirit rather early ... nothing like a 'panto to get you into the mood ... highly recommended!

Thread: BMFA Area Chief Examiner standards
15/12/2014 04:08:21


The longer this situation goes on without some sort of response from the BMFA the worse it gets.

I am old enough and and ugly enough to have seen many situations in real life where 'club' committees get it wrong and where they reflect 'only' the views of the few .... rather than the views of the many .... often the silent majority.

The notion of 'the old boys club' or some other cliche based membership criteria is something I have no trouble in both believing and understanding ... its not ideal ... but that's life ... although that doesn't make it right.

In many respects I am grateful that the BMFA has a very good long term relationship with the CAA which clearly helps our hobby/sport when it comes to matters such as the current issues around "drone" flying.

However the issues highlighted by this thread are a very good good demonstration of all that is "not so good" when an organisation is not prepared to engage in debate with it's membership in regards to its decision making processes.

This forum and social media demonstrate that there is a need for organisations to be able to respond 'quickly' if and when situations dictate. I suspect that the nature of this issue is something that the BMFA is simply unprepared to respond to.

I find the situation highlighted by this thread to be 'really' frustrating ... something that in my professional life would be completely 'unacceptable' ... and a situation that would be dealt with by some rather quick meetings, discussion and output actions.

At a very personal level my reason for BMFA membership is that it is simple (through my club) and affordable ... but it is entirely driven by the need for insurance ... I am very frustrated by the issues highlighted in this thread .. and if the BMFA don't come up with a 'credible' public response I will look elsewhere for insurance cover

The cost of insurance is important to me ... but the credibility of the organisation is even more important ... this thread has raised some important issues regarding the integrity and transparency of the BMFA ... if the organisation does not respond in an appropriate manner I will be tempted to look elsewhere for insurance cover .. even if it costs more ...

My perception is that the BMFA is a rather introvert and closed shop organisation, it is my belief that if I was to mount an personal challenge about this issue they would simply turn around and exclude me from membership ...  


Edited By avtur on 15/12/2014 04:10:07

Edited By avtur on 15/12/2014 04:16:57

Thread: Stop logging me out!
14/12/2014 21:57:17
Posted by Dave Bran on 14/12/2014 07:43:25:

The "keep me logged in" hasn't worked for weeks.

VERY annoying.......................

This has never worked for me ... months if not years ... Windows desktop ... Mac Laptop ... iPhone ... "keep me logged in" ... has never worked !!!

I give up with the techy side of the is forum ... not just the log in .... but the general functionality of the forum software ...

But if you persevere ... the content is worth it !!!

Thread: Propellers ...
14/12/2014 21:46:54

I hope you might find this interesting ...

LINK ... ... 

Edited By avtur on 14/12/2014 21:50:08

Thread: Radial Engined Volkswagen??
10/12/2014 15:23:22

It remains a true air cooled VW ... excellent.

I wonder how much weight is tucked under the front to keep the front wheels on the ground!

Thread: Drone Near Miss.
10/12/2014 15:16:13
Posted by Alan J Roberts 1 on 10/12/2014 14:47:53:
Posted by Clive Hall on 10/12/2014 14:42:20:


“ . . . it’s what people do with the tech that should be regulated and not the equipment.”

My point remains that, given the kind of equipment that the majority of people are using, it should not be necessary to regulate them, but there is a danger that this can happen if we get a blanket of ill considered new rules.


And to be honest, following in that train of thought, I'm wondering if we actually need any more regulation.

Methinks the current rules already cover it nicely.

I would agree, this growing problem is caused by people breaking already existing rules ... if those rules were complied with the majority of recently reported problems would not exist; regulating the equipment is unlikely to change this.

Many of the recently reported problems point to issues of education and/or enforcement, both of which require resource; that is a problem in these cash strapped times.

The CAA advice is for any drone issues to be reported to the Police in the first instance, with the best will in the world there is little or no spare Police resource to investigate and enforce, that cold be a real problem.

I would also suggest that this growing problem is widespread, I'm sure most European countries are seeing similar problems, the worry there is that the "EU" might want to get involved ... then it would become seriously over regulated, the only saving grace is that it would probably take at least a decade for them to do anything!

Thread: BMFA Area Chief Examiner standards
10/12/2014 11:13:34

Unless I'm much mistaken this entire thread arises from a decision made by secret ballot, without that decision being made I'm not sure the OP would have had cause to make the first post.

Personally I find the idea of a secret ballot rather unpleasant, it detracts from accountability and since there appears to have been no subsequent explanation as to reasons behind the decision it becomes a situation that is likely to arouse some peoples suspicion, which indeed it has done.

It also appears that different areas approach decision making in different ways, that the secret ballot is not used everywhere, should that inconsistency be a cause for concern?

Clearly this thread has exposed some strongly held views on the matter of an ACE's ability to 'demonstrate'; may be it s good to have the discussion, time will tell.

Is there any chance that the root cause, the secret ballot and resulting decision, will ever be explained to BMFA members, I think that would help.

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