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Ernie31/10/2014 11:39:19
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2542 forum posts
24 photos

Hi guys, I see from the French press this morning that "drones" have been overflying the nuclear power stations.

There is talk of banning all unmanned flying machines, and who can argue with that. It seems that seven powerstations have recently been visited by drones. The persons responsible are unknown

There is even talk of shooting them down with fighters

So beware

ernie.

Jon - Laser Engines31/10/2014 11:43:25
5629 forum posts
271 photos

the problem with these drones is growing and panic reactions like this are all over the place. I think most of the operators of these things are not members of the modelling community and so are totally unaware of the rules that govern their operation. If they knew they could spend many years in jail for breaching the ANO I am sure a large proportion would be quite alarmed. Instead of banning everything, a better bet would be to educate people at point of sale. then if they are found to be out of bounds then they clearly should be chastised accordingly.

Dave Hopkin31/10/2014 12:19:06
3672 forum posts
294 photos

Here is the BBC Report **LINK**

It states that overflights of the nuclear sites took place at almost the same time across several different locations, meaning is wasn't a single idiot, but a number of people, which would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing, the drones themselves (we are told) were small commercially available ones and posed no threat - But if I had an inclination to learn a great deal about the layout and phyiscal security arrangements of a particular site, I can't think of an easier way to do it that a FPV Drone.... Now what these people might do with that information is a whole different ball game, and given the heightened levels of threat assessments around the world at the moment then someone somewhere is going to be reaching for the "We must do something about this" button.........

Phil 931/10/2014 12:21:14
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4287 forum posts
257 photos

this has been commented on at length in other threads and has Jon and others have said the law is already in place that prohibits this type of flying.

But I still think it is a real possibility that further legislation could be put into place to deal with the “drone” problem that could have a knock on affect on other forms of model flying.

it has started to happern in other countries

**LINK**

Ernie31/10/2014 13:50:41
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2542 forum posts
24 photos

Hi All, I'd like to hear some realistic solutions to all this.

After all, it could effect us all, and it would be good if we were ahead of the game

ernie

Dave Hopkin31/10/2014 14:01:59
3672 forum posts
294 photos

If we break down the users into groups:

a) The responsible flying community who are aware of the ANO and adhere to it

b) The general public who buy them as toys and dont know the ANO exists

c) The person using them for nefarious purposes who dont care about the ANO

=======

For each group

a) Self Regulation will (and almost certainly already does) virtually eliminate the problem

b) Education by the CAA and a few high profile prosecutions will extend the understanding of the ANO

c) Only external "offensive" policing will have any impact here

For the bulk of class B its the CAA's responsibility to inform and enforce the ANO, and education is the key thing here, there may well be a role for the BMFA to play here, in a supporting role in the education process


Andy Meade31/10/2014 14:10:20
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2787 forum posts
717 photos

A solution? Large octo's that are stationed near areas of interest, run by the Anti Drone Agency. Fit large pneumatically-fired nets that are anchored to the octo with a long line.

Chase the perp's quad, fire net, offending phantom quad gets entangled in net, winch in the line, bring him home. Quad now confiscated. Search quad serial number / memory card / forensically for identity of controlling perp. Fine / gail / whip perp as necessary.

I hearby instate myself as Director of the ADA.

A nice DIY net gun here : http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-A-Net-Gun/

Edited By Andy Meade on 31/10/2014 14:12:01

Edited By Andy Meade on 31/10/2014 14:15:23

Dave Hopkin31/10/2014 14:20:44
3672 forum posts
294 photos

Much easier to have a multi frequency jammer installed on strategic sites and shoot it down that way!!!

Andy Meade31/10/2014 14:24:19
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2787 forum posts
717 photos

Maybe, but you can set a quad running APM or a Crius to follow GPS waypoints - no need for an RF link then. You could of course jam GPS, but I think there would be a lot of people upset in the area if you did that, including legal air traffic in the area.

Dave Hopkin31/10/2014 14:31:10
3672 forum posts
294 photos

GPS isn't a desperately strong signal, so it could be subjected to low power jamming effective upto (say) 2000m

effectively creating a "jammed bubble canopy" over the site, would work in non urban areas where the numbers of GPS within the zone would be relatively low and to protect air traffic a minimum height could be specifed

In urban areas, then your right electronic jamming of GPS would be far too intrusive to be politically acceptable, so some sort of physical bring down would have to be used

PatMc31/10/2014 14:37:03
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4482 forum posts
548 photos
Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/10/2014 12:19:06:
But if I had an inclination to learn a great deal about the layout and phyiscal security arrangements of a particular site, I can't think of an easier way to do it that a FPV Drone....

Google Earth, perhaps ? wink 2

Andy Meade31/10/2014 14:37:41
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2787 forum posts
717 photos

Then navigation via IMU only will be next I guess - it's not far off now for some of the flight controllers.

What can I say - I'm just desperate to lassoo those quads!

Former Member31/10/2014 14:47:19
8090 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Dave Hopkin31/10/2014 15:03:36
3672 forum posts
294 photos
Posted by PatMc on 31/10/2014 14:37:03:
Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/10/2014 12:19:06:
But if I had an inclination to learn a great deal about the layout and phyiscal security arrangements of a particular site, I can't think of an easier way to do it that a FPV Drone....

Google Earth, perhaps ? wink 2

The interesting bits on google earth are tampered with so eliminate ant detail

PatMc31/10/2014 15:04:39
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4482 forum posts
548 photos

If it's Mr Knowles you're refering to I think he was a BMFA member at the time of the offence. He certainly asked the BMFA for advice after he had been charged.

PatMc31/10/2014 15:12:21
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4482 forum posts
548 photos

Dave, anyone wanting to breach security would need to use some element of surprise. Flying a drone would glean less advantage than having a study of what's on Google Earth.

Ian Jones31/10/2014 15:16:16
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3229 forum posts
1401 photos
Posted by Dave Hopkin on 31/10/2014 14:01:59:

If we break down the users into groups:

a) The responsible flying community who are aware of the ANO and adhere to it

b) The general public who buy them as toys and dont know the ANO exists

c) The person using them for nefarious purposes who dont care about the ANO

=======

For each group

a) Self Regulation will (and almost certainly already does) virtually eliminate the problem

b) Education by the CAA and a few high profile prosecutions will extend the understanding of the ANO

c) Only external "offensive" policing will have any impact here

For the bulk of class B its the CAA's responsibility to inform and enforce the ANO, and education is the key thing here, there may well be a role for the BMFA to play here, in a supporting role in the education process

thumbs up Nice one Dave, a more level headed offering than over legislation.

Ian

Dave Hopkin31/10/2014 15:34:29
3672 forum posts
294 photos
Posted by PatMc on 31/10/2014 15:12:21:

Dave, anyone wanting to breach security would need to use some element of surprise. Flying a drone would glean less advantage than having a study of what's on Google Earth.

I can assure you that sensitive sites in the UK and USA are tampered with to remove anything useful before they go onto the public net, have a look at Holy Loch, see the strange cigar shaped bits of sea? Guess what used to be there!!!!

 

Plus google  earth can be upto 3 or 4 years out of date

Edited By Dave Hopkin on 31/10/2014 15:35:01

Paul Marsh31/10/2014 15:45:45
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4104 forum posts
1235 photos

A better idea would introduce licencing of quads and drones. This would create a legal body which would regulate use and control - before they get banned altogether.

Buying a quad over say, a 250 size would mean registering it, if it has cameras on it, remote fpv, etc.

By paying an amount, would entitle the user to have clearance to fly, resposability and be aware of not doing so would happen.

Sooner or later, there will be a total ban on sale of quads and drones, if current trends are kept unchecked.

Andy Meade31/10/2014 15:54:01
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2787 forum posts
717 photos

..and, like firearms licencing - all the problems are created by those that don't care about the legality of their use, and never will get them registered.

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