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Maths and English

- a radical approach?

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Stevo01/02/2015 17:07:41
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All children to know thier time tables by the end of Primary School - as well as how to punctuate - and even spell.

Before I blow a fuse - anyone else care to rant?

cymaz01/02/2015 17:17:36
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My kids knew their TT's by 8/9 years of age, up to 9x.

Kumon helped them all the way....it takes a lot of time from the parents as well, checking and marking but it can help them to in a round about way

Edited By cymaz on 01/02/2015 17:18:08

Edited By cymaz on 01/02/2015 17:18:38

Edited By cymaz on 01/02/2015 17:19:06

Stevo01/02/2015 17:19:02
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As did mine, and as did I!

PatMc01/02/2015 17:32:25
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If all children are able to use punctuation & to spell by the time the end of primary school perhaps they could teach some of the teachers. wink 2

denis parkinson01/02/2015 17:40:24
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I run a fairly large classified buying and selling group on F/Book..

It does my head in when I see members advertising high value items, and hope to be taken seriously, even though their adverts are littered with spelling mistakes, or they write it as a text message..

Sparks01/02/2015 17:42:10
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They could also teach them how to spell 'their'.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that!

Stevo01/02/2015 17:54:25
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Touche, Sparks!!!

Tony Bennett01/02/2015 18:02:34
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i used to work in a junior school and the number of children who came up from primary school unable to read was astounding.

Wingman01/02/2015 18:15:51
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They've all got mobile phones with calculators nowadays so they don't need to count also the 11 and 12 times tables aren't relevant anymore cos we don't have 12 pennies in a shilling anymore and we're not suppose to have 12 inches in a foot either. They have spell checkers on their phones and computers which spell wrong but they know what you mean. They don't need to do exams or know anything cos they just ask Google or Siri or Cortana and then they copy and paste so they don't need to write They don't need to know anything about model planes cos they can just take one out of a box get dad to stick batteries in it and then tell it where to go using their phone. And if adults get on to them they just pull up their hoods and open up Facebook - they're awe doomed a tell ye, awe doooommmeddevil

Stevo01/02/2015 18:20:30
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That cracked me up! laugh

Andy4801/02/2015 19:48:32
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Frankly this is just politics. Children have always learned their tables at school. Its been in the National Curriculum for the last 25 years. Only a politician would dream of returning to the 12 times tables though. Anything past 10 times is unnecessary. Kids today are taught a range of mental arithmetic strategies.

Now for a challenge. How would you define knowing your tables?

Children also learn to punctuate and spell. However, one has to recognise that things like spelling are a lifelong learning process. One could learn the rules "I before E except after C, " for example. Then try and spell science!

I would strongly suggest that people look at the standard expected of an 11 year old. I would guess many adults would fail the KS2 maths or English or both.

Finally. ALL children to know, to be able to etc. ... tested at KS2. Any child absent from one exam fails that subject. How on earth are our wonderful politicians going to ensure that every 11 year old in England is going to be present every day for the week of the tests? How on earth are our wonderful politicians going to get even the most severely handicapped child to get to this level of learning?

Wingman01/02/2015 20:08:07
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Neatly links to the rant thread POLITICIANS!!!!!!!!!!!

kevin b01/02/2015 20:20:24
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I agree innit ? teeth 2

 

 

How about teaching them a little dress sense as well ?        wink 2

Edited By kevin b on 01/02/2015 20:21:38

simon burch01/02/2015 20:34:55
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Interesting to see the comments. I'm a secondary maths teacher and it's shocking to see the poor levels of maths a large majority of the kids turn up with after effectively 6 years of education.

The kids who do well are supported at home or encouraged to practice. If you don't have that, it is an uphill battle and we are trying to do our best.

There is a big shortage of teachers............I wonder why?

Simon

Prop Nut01/02/2015 20:38:40
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336 forum posts
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Children haven't always learned multiplication tables at school. In 2003 there was a Channel 4 programme called 'That'll Teach 'em', where a group of teenage boys and girls were taken back to education in the 'fifties. One of the girls was predicted to get an A grade at mathematics in her real school, but struggled with the maths syllabus of the 'fifties. She was astounded when a teacher explained the four times table to her, as she had never been taught it, or any other, at school or at home. She was delighted and went round exclaiming 'It really helps to do maths when you know the tables'.

In the same series, the group were given an 11 Plus paper to do, without being told that's what it was. Afterwards, when asked what they thought they had taken, they mostly said it was an O Level exam! They were devastated to find that most of them couldn't pass an exam at sixteen that pupils of the 'fifties and 'sixties took at ten or eleven.

Martin Harris01/02/2015 20:42:14
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Posted by Andy48 on 01/02/2015 19:48:32:

Children also learn to punctuate and spell. However, one has to recognise that things like spelling are a lifelong learning process. One could learn the rules "I before E except after C, " for example. Then try and spell science!

It's funny, but very few people ever use the full version of this little ditty...I before E except after C, when the sound is EE.

Try it on your favourite "exceptions".

Andy4801/02/2015 20:54:55
1561 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Prop Nut on 01/02/2015 20:38:40:

Children haven't always learned multiplication tables at school. In 2003 there was a Channel 4 programme called 'That'll Teach 'em', where a group of teenage boys and girls were taken back to education in the 'fifties. One of the girls was predicted to get an A grade at mathematics in her real school, but struggled with the maths syllabus of the 'fifties. She was astounded when a teacher explained the four times table to her, as she had never been taught it, or any other, at school or at home. She was delighted and went round exclaiming 'It really helps to do maths when you know the tables'.

In the same series, the group were given an 11 Plus paper to do, without being told that's what it was. Afterwards, when asked what they thought they had taken, they mostly said it was an O Level exam! They were devastated to find that most of them couldn't pass an exam at sixteen that pupils of the 'fifties and 'sixties took at ten or eleven.

Yes they have always been taught the tables, the National Curriculum is a legal obligation on schools. This is purely anecdotal from one pupil, probably designed to make good TV. Maybe she had forgotten her tables. As I pointed out above, I defy anyone to actually define in measurable terms what knowing ones tables means.

Maths, as a subject has changed in the way it is taught and what is taught. It is little wonder that pupils could not do a 50s paper or an 11 plus, though not necessarily any easier. Incidentally, in the 50s, the GCE pass rate was just over 10%.

Prop Nut01/02/2015 20:55:35
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336 forum posts
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That's as I was taught it Martin, along with many other things that have stayed with me throughout my life. My CofE primary headmaster taught two classes in one long room; one group were about to do the Eleven Plus, the other were in the year before. He would do some lessons with both classes, then set work for one whilst he taught the other, then reverse the process. He had a very high pass rate and must have worked his socks off whilst making it all look very easy. It took me twenty years to realise just how much I owed him.

Andy4801/02/2015 20:56:25
1561 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by simon burch on 01/02/2015 20:34:55:

Interesting to see the comments. I'm a secondary maths teacher and it's shocking to see the poor levels of maths a large majority of the kids turn up with after effectively 6 years of education.

The kids who do well are supported at home or encouraged to practice. If you don't have that, it is an uphill battle and we are trying to do our best.

There is a big shortage of teachers............I wonder why?

Simon

Personally, I've been more shocked at the standard of secondary maths teaching.

kevin b01/02/2015 20:57:27
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1966 forum posts
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I can sense a "soap box" session coming on !

When I was young (a long while ago). most of the male teachers were ex-forces, so you didn't cross them. A lot of the female teachers were quite maternal and nobody ever argued with mother !!!

The one subject missing from the curriculum at ALL levels of education in this country is respect and how to earn it.

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