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Electric power options. Sonata E kit.

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Roger Jepps10/10/2007 16:05:00
26 forum posts

I have aquired an old 2m Sonata E kit originally supplied by Balsa Cabin in the early eighties.  The design I believe was the electric version of the old popular Sonata 2m Thermal glider of the time designed by Ken Goater,  just with a broader fuselage to accomodate the electric installation.  Unfortunately the instructions are sketchy and only give a line drawing of the placement of an electric motor and its components.  I would suspect a 600 motor would have been the ideal for this size of model.  I would certainly like to give this one a go but having only flown IC and new to the field of electrics can anyone give an idea of what would be a suitable motor setup.  Thanks.

DeeBee118/10/2008 17:40:00
16 forum posts

Did you build the Sonata kit?  I'm looking to obtain one (in kit form) so if you didn't and you would like to sell it I'd be happy to make you an offer.

Roger Jepps18/10/2008 20:10:00
26 forum posts

Hi.  Sorry,  after some deliberation this is one of the kits I listed earlier this year and sold on ebay.

Gordon Serpis 124/04/2019 09:50:18
14 forum posts
4 photos

Hello Roger

i know it has been a while since your post on the Sonata E but i have just bought a Sonata kit and want to electrify it. I have spoken to Balsa Cabin on the best way to do this but there advice was that you had to figure out your own installation but did suggest using an out runner motor. Did you have any luck with electrifying your Sonata and are you able to share any info on how you achieved it? Some pics would be useful..

thanks in advance.

Gordon

Nightflyer24/04/2019 21:43:24
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207 forum posts

Hi Gordon,

I saw your message about the Sonata E. I have built two of in my time. The first I built back in 1997 and that was Speed 600 powered with 7 cell nicad and later nimh pack. I made a couple of modifications at the time in making some lightening holes using a tank cutter in the tail plane and fin but also really shaped the rear fuselage to not only reduce weight but to streamline fuselage. I also made the wing two piece with a couple of tube and wire joiners to make it easy to transport. I had many many flights with it like this.

A few years back I built another same modifications as above but for an outrunner. It is actually quite easy. I had a 2826 1400kv Overlander motor and 3S 1500mAh Lipo pack and all I did was make a new bulkhead that I mounted the motor on behind the existing one which was opened out to ensure no interference with the motor and fitted an 8x6 folding prop. The end result was a far lighter glider which still required some ballast. To be honest if you have a 2200mAh or similar 3S pack it will be better than adding too much ballast and is what I ended up doing. If it needs weight in the nose it might as well be useful. I would suggest you remember to make things light as possible with fuselage and tail aft of the wing.

I really have a soft spot for the Sonata and might now have to pop in Balsa Cabin to get a third model. This time for my son.

Former Member24/04/2019 22:22:34
8090 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

PatMc24/04/2019 23:32:23
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4489 forum posts
548 photos

If you want to emulate a bungee or towline launch then glide one of these would be ideal together with a 40A - 50A ESC & 3s 1500 - 2200 lipo from the same source. This motor is about 30g lighter than a can 600 brushed & should be a drop in fit in place of the 600.

Piers Bowlan25/04/2019 10:12:24
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2240 forum posts
57 photos

That is a good suggestion PatMc especially as it is a drop-in solution. The Sonata-E fuselage has a reasonable width by all accounts and would probably accommodate a regular 35mm outer runner motor if you are seeking a high powered climb, although I don't have the plan to hand. Otherwise fit a 28mm dia motor as Nighflyer did.

Nightflyer25/04/2019 12:47:45
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207 forum posts

Hi Gordon

Both Piers and Percy have valid points with the fact that the brushless equivalent of a Speed 600 is considerably more powerful, and that the fuselage is a good width. At the end of the day if you go for a sizeable power increase to what it was designed for, consider whether you need to strenghten the wing panel joins/braces or not. In theory the existing design should be adequate as after all the glider can be bungee'd.

After my post yesterday it has got me very much planning on building another Sonata.

Levanter25/04/2019 12:53:07
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889 forum posts
437 photos

Hello Gordon

I have nearly finished build a standard Sonata that I have converted to electric.
p1070079.jpg

The nose block has been substituted for a 38mm diameter spinner which suits the fuselage profile very well. I must have got the 3 degrees downthrust from somewhere. It is a Clatk type wing section and I probably got the advice from this forum.

p1070080.jpg

I made a motor mounting plate put of some birch ply and the slot is to allow the wire to go back to the ESC.


p1070084.jpg

Here the mounting plate is set back to accommodate the motor (bolted directly to the ply as there is no room for an adaptor.

The motor is 28mm diameter E-Flite Park at 890 kv. It is unlikely that a 35mm would fit and have enough clearance to get it through the nose.
I have a 20amp ESC and a Graupner 10 x 5 folding propeller in the alloy spinner. I can't remember if it is going to be 2s or 3s.

I am far from being an electric flight expert so take my set-up with some caution and maybe someone could check my out on this. It would be easy to change the ESC and Prop if necessary but is shows that the basic installation is quite easy.

Mine has spoilers on the wing and I have made the rear end as light as possible, including keeping the single elevator because the new gear up front is lighter than the original E design.

Levanter

Gordon Serpis 125/04/2019 16:14:37
14 forum posts
4 photos

..flipping heck, one question and what a response, thanks guys, loads of options that i can look at. Levanter i'm interested in how you progress with your approach as it looks like what i'm aiming to achieve. I'm also keen to see your radio installation as while the fuselage is roomy there appears to be a lot to fit in with an electric installation.

I too like the look of the Sontata, proper traditional build model, whats not to like? Thanks again everyone, a proper intro to follow as my first post in a while. A good start.

Gordon

Levanter25/04/2019 16:25:33
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889 forum posts
437 photos

Yes Gordon it is a pretty aircraft.

p1070029.jpg

This was a photo I picked up from the internet. My colours are different but I am keeping the transparent sections. This one also has the spoilers in the top of the wing.

I will take some more photos over the next few days and post them for you with a few explanations.

Good luck with yours and post some progress photos if you feel inclined.

Levanter

PatMc25/04/2019 16:29:12
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4489 forum posts
548 photos
Posted by Nightflyer on 25/04/2019 12:47:45:

Hi Gordon

Both Piers and Percy have valid points with the fact that the brushless equivalent of a Speed 600 is considerably more powerful, and that the fuselage is a good width. At the end of the day if you go for a sizeable power increase to what it was designed for, consider whether you need to strenghten the wing panel joins/braces or not. In theory the existing design should be adequate as after all the glider can be bungee'd.

After my post yesterday it has got me very much planning on building another Sonata.

There's no need to strengthen the wings to take the extra power unless it's intended to use that power in order to fly at high speed in a shallow climb or horizontally. If the power is used to climb steeply, say at the same or greater angle as a strong bungee launch, there will be less stress on the wings than there would be in a bungee or hand tow launch that the glider was designed to take.

One of the considerations I made when I suggested the one I linked was that it's pointless going for a motor that's much lighter than a Speed 600 then adding nose weight when one near (still about 35 gm lighter) could be used.
Of course it doesn't have to be propped for full power. Something like a 9 x 5 folder blades on a 38 - 40 mm spinner using 3s lipo would give a sprightly climb at lower power with less stress & heat generated in the motor.

Robin Martinus31/10/2019 12:19:36
5 forum posts
5 photos
Posted by Gordon Serpis 1 on 24/04/2019 09:50:18:.... I have spoken to Balsa Cabin on the best way to do this but there advice was that you had to figure out your own installation but did suggest using an out runner motor.

I have recently purchased the Sonata 3in1 kit (which I assume is a rebadging of the old kit) and the only info they provide (a sticker on the box)is that the recommend motor is one of ***THESE***

I asked Overlander what their suggested ESC for this motor was and their recommendation is ****THIS***

As a returnee to the hobby after a 40yr layoff....I am a complete noob. I did try and get some help from Balsa Cabin but they ignored my request for recommendations of ESC,Battery,Prop, Servo....

(Thankfully Levanter has offered to help with his extensive experience! I will be looking for much help when it comes to creating Air Brakes/Spoilers etc)

As I plan to have as many of the bits laid out on my board, before wielding my scalpel/squeezing the glue tube and tackling the build.... I have spent an age trying to glean information and when it came to batteries, I have been following PatMc's suggestions above ".... & 3s 1500 - 2200 lipo ...." and other comments regarding weight/ballast and went to Overlander again....

Their offering of ***a 2200mAh 3s***

is out of stock and I was wondering if their is any benefit is going with their 2700mAh 3S

knowing that there is a weight penalty of 35g. Any help appreciated.

In the early hours of the morning I discovered an amazing deal on a RadioLink AT9s Tx and Rx combo and as I will need something to practice on, I ordered it...(I may have to purchase another Rx as 10Ch seems like overkill!)

The last item on my shopping list are the dreaded Servos and I am absolutely clueless as to where to start, so I would really appreciate any suggestions as to exactly what I should go for.

I hope this post has answered 1 question and I would be eternally grateful for suggestions on the other questions...

Geoff S31/10/2019 12:31:10
3914 forum posts
62 photos

I would suggest you look at the Gliderdrive motors sold by HobbyKing. They are outrunners but contained in an outer case and have connections at the back - ideal for a tight fitting. There are a several to choose from.

Geoff

Piers Bowlan31/10/2019 16:23:54
avatar
2240 forum posts
57 photos

I suggest you also get some of these from Hobbyking too. Nothing wrong with the quality and a lot cheaper too. UK warehouse as well, so quick delivery and no duty to pay. yes

Regarding servos, I have bought quite a few of these in the past and found them very satisfactory to say the least. They are out of stock from the UK warehouse but if you buy from the EU warehouse they take no longer to arrive and  also no duty to pay (before Brexit at least!)

 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 31/10/2019 16:29:47

Piers Bowlan31/10/2019 16:53:15
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2240 forum posts
57 photos

One of these motors would be suitable with a 9x6 prop (on a 3s LiPo) perhaps. Or may be one of these for a very spritely climb! They are both 28mm in diameter so should fit within the fuselage nose with room to spare for the three wires.

I have bought quite a few Turnigy Plush ESCs in the past. Always rock solid performance and not had a duff one yet.

 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 31/10/2019 17:07:27

PatMc31/10/2019 18:19:45
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4489 forum posts
548 photos
Posted by Piers Bowlan on 31/10/2019 16:53:15:

One of these motors would be suitable with a 9x6 prop (on a 3s LiPo) perhaps. Or may be one of these for a very spritely climb! They are both 28mm in diameter so should fit within the fuselage nose with room to spare for the three wires.

I have bought quite a few Turnigy Plush ESCs in the past. Always rock solid performance and not had a duff one yet.

 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 31/10/2019 17:07:27

Piers, both motors are rear mount. They would need either the shaft reversed or an extra bulkhead for the X mount as Levanter has done. That would require some method of access to the X mount fixing screws. It would be interesting to see how Levanter did it.

PS I'll second your recommendation for the Turnigy Plush ESCs & the linked battery thumbs up

 

Edited By PatMc on 31/10/2019 18:22:54

Piers Bowlan31/10/2019 19:13:02
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2240 forum posts
57 photos

Yes, reversing the shaft is quite fiddly with a circlip and small grub screw holding the shaft in place.

As you say Patmc the best option is probably to fit another bulkhead but I wouln't use the ali x-mount at all but have the screws pass from behind the new bulkhead directly into the back of the motor. Just check and double check the length of the screws for if they are too long they will damage the windings. This assumes you leave a hatch on top of the model to access the motor. If you see what I mean!

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 31/10/2019 19:15:18

Robin Martinus04/11/2019 13:25:53
5 forum posts
5 photos

Geoff,Piers & PatMc, thank you so much for the ideas/solutions.

I can see that the 'outrunner in a can' is a more aesthetically pleasing and modern solution...

My 1st mistake - taking the only known (the suggestion from Balsa Cabin) and then working backwardsangry

After the choice of 2836 I decided to continue the Overlander route as they provided most of the bits with the same connectors (Deans) and they are a UK manufacturer/supplier.

I will now re-asses and let you know how I get along

(at this stage I still honing my skills on n an RCM&E plan and a simple DRP model)

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