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The House of lords and Drones ....

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avtur05/03/2015 02:07:02
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Where will this go ???

Now the House of Lords has a view on drones ...

LINK

cymaz05/03/2015 06:53:16
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The law will change in the future. Those drone operators ,who give little regard for the rules that are already there, will force the government hand into doing something about it.

It may be that every importer should put in a leaflet about the CAA rules on flying an unmanned vehicle in the box. Though with people importing from all over the world this will be almost a non- starter.

It will be impossible for the police to enforce...the numbers have been cut and I don't think that they would put this at the top of the priorities list.

Self enforcement ....not going to happen.

If it annoys enough people then they could be banned except for registered users. Or it's just a craze for a few years until something else comes along.

Robert Parker05/03/2015 07:40:24
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If they intend to licence all unmanned drones how long would it take before this could be extended to FPV and further into our sport.

Or on realising that this proposal would be almost impossible to police due as Cymas has pointed out above that they take a blanket ban on ALL radio / phone controlled aircraft types.

I am in full agreement that something should be done to stop these idiot fliers who fly close to full size aircraft as mentioned in the news this morning, before a major accident happens. Why is it that a small minority have to spoil our sport that I have enjoyed for nearly 30 years now. But licencing them I'm not too sure how it can be done with so many retail outlets and the internet.

Regards

Robert

ken anderson.05/03/2015 07:54:40
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there's going to be a lot of ornaments lying around that people have bought and aren't allowed to fly -through a few silly people........................its not only here--this from the web site in Malta..

Draft regulations on use of drones worrying operators, hobbyists>>

Drone operators and hobbyists have voiced concerns over the draft regulations on the use of drones put forward by the authorities.>>

During a packed public consultation meeting this morning, director general for Civil Aviation George Borg Marks said a number of recent incidents involving RPAs (Remotely-Piloted Aircraft) had highlighted the need for regulation.>>

On one occasion, a drone was reported flying at 3000 feet directly in the approach path of one of the runways, while another drone had been flown into the airfield boundary.>>

One hobbyist expressed his fear that the proposed system of “designated areas” would impose an unreasonable amount of bureaucracy on individuals.>>

Under the proposed legal notice, which is open for public consultation until March 31, drone use is limited to designated areas and particular flight levels, considering “the proximity of any aerodrome, flight paths of aircraft and any other possible dangers to aviation, persons or property.>>

Another hobbyist argued that the cut-off weight of a kilogram – below which the regulations do not apply – was overly-restrictive, particularly as the most popular commercial models were between one and two kilos in weight. In the US and UK, he said, the comparative weights were 25kg and 20kg respectively.>>

A commercial operator, who has worked with drones for search and rescue purposes for a number of years, claimed that obtaining insurance, another proposed requirement, was currently “an impossible task”.>>

He said that although no drone-related injuries have ever been recorded in Malta, insurance companies were reluctant to provide coverage, and called on the authorities to act as a go-between in order to safeguard operators’ reputations.>>

Stefan Sant, Transport Malta legal advisor, said the goal of the regulations was to enable drones to operate with safety and visibility.>>

He said the authorities were approaching the consultation exercise with an open mind, and had already granted significant discretion to the director general to exclude certain categories of drone from the requirements on the basis of performance characteristics and intended use.>>

>>

>ken Anderson....ne...1 ....end of the drone's..............uav dept.>

 

Edited By ken anderson. on 05/03/2015 07:55:28

Dave Hopkin05/03/2015 08:02:54
3672 forum posts
294 photos

The big risk is that "we" see drones as something different to main stream rc flying, the authorites and the law dont, they are all RPV's and any additional regulations might well simply be blanket restrictions on all RPVs

Martin Whybrow05/03/2015 08:14:15
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This snippet from the BBC news article is worrying:

"The recommendation was made by the House of Lords EU Committee, which has been looking into what rules are needed to safeguard the use of unmanned aircraft.

It suggests the database would initially include businesses and other professional users, and then later expand to encompass consumers."

This indicates that any register would likely apply to all of our flying models, be they the multirotors AKA 'drones', or helicopters, or fixed wing models. That's probably the correct thing to do IF they were to implement such a scheme, after all multirotors are just a variant of small flying aircraft (deliberately avoiding the use of models, there are few full size multi-rotor craft to model), could you seriously imagine every model you own having to be registered? Perhaps the register would be by the flier. They seem to ignore the fact that professionals already have to be registered and obtain the necessary license and permissions!

Andy Meade05/03/2015 08:43:23
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2688 forum posts
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"Hello Left Hand, I'm Right Hand - what have you been up to today?"

Allan Bennett05/03/2015 08:54:57
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44 photos

As has already been mentioned, rules about flying any model aircraft already exist, and the authorities are powerless to enforce them. So how will new rules improve things?

Many of you will remember when we did have to pay 5/- (or whatever it was) at the Post Office to get a licence for RC. That was eventually ditched because it was uneconomical or unworkable or something.

Bucksboy05/03/2015 08:56:46
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559 forum posts
106 photos

We then return to the point where the majority of law abiding citizens comply with the law and register their models. The same people who already fly sensibly and carefully. The ones who want to fly stupidly will continue and not register themselves.

Compare the law to car ownership. Most comply will all laws and operate them sensibly. The ones who can't or won't, still continue to operate outside the law. We've got hundreds of laws about cars and their use but a tiny minority deliberately flout these laws. These are comparatively easy to enforce too. Stop the car and prosecute the driver is a simplistic version. Counter that with a drone (or whatever we decide to call them), it's hovering over a housing estate. Who is flying it? It then flies off 200 yards in a straight line, disappears from view and the Police are left with nothing. Never mind the reduced Police numbers and the 'why aren't you out catching a burglar' argument.

I don't know what the answer is. Half of me believes that it will be a fad and will die off. Most of these people are not modellers and will lose interest or not fix them when they break.

Cuban805/03/2015 10:06:59
2822 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Bucksboy on 05/03/2015 08:56:46:

I don't know what the answer is. Half of me believes that it will be a fad and will die off. Most of these people are not modellers and will lose interest or not fix them when they break.

Yes agree with those sentiments. The 'gadget brigade' will have their fling with their toys and move on to the next fad hyped up by retailers. Most of those that have a genuine and responsible interest in the technology (from a hobby standpoint) will, I'm sure, continue to operate without problems & laws are in place to deal with anyone that doesn't follow the regulations. I know of only a handful of modellers in the two clubs that I belong to (around 230 flyers) who have taken up 'drone flying' in a serious form and have made a serious financial investment in kit ( twenty quid toy quads that many of us play with in the garden don't count).

It may differ elsewhere, but I don't detect a massive change along the likes of the 2.4 revolution that has affected the hobby to a massive extent, certainly within the traditional club environment.

Use of larger professional vehicles for commercial photography, surveying or perhaps assisting in search and rescue will find their own level, and given time, will continue to operate under UK legislation that will take a while to get right, given how the capability of the technology can change so fast.

As for 'drones' flying about carrying parcels for home delivery, well, I view that rather like the notion of the 'flying car' that did seem a good idea in the 1940s and 50s, but for sheer impracticality has only been the limited province of the eccentric or the very rich.

John F05/03/2015 10:19:53
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Posted by Martin Whybrow on 05/03/2015 08:14:15:

They seem to ignore the fact that professionals already have to be registered and obtain the necessary license and permissions!

But that is a register for insurance purposes rather than a national register for the purpose of identification and regulation. The two are different animals.

PatMc05/03/2015 10:32:33
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Posted by avtur on 05/03/2015 02:07:02:

Where will this go ???

Now the House of Lords has a view on drones ...

LINK

I thought being an old drone was a condition of membership for the House of Lords. wink 2

Martin Whybrow05/03/2015 12:24:14
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884 forum posts
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Posted by John F on 05/03/2015 10:19:53:

But that is a register for insurance purposes rather than a national register for the purpose of identification and regulation. The two are different animals.

From the CAA website section on commercial use of UAVs, no mention of insurance here:

  • CAP 722, Section 3, Chapter 1, details the sort of information that is needed to be provided when you apply for a permission.
  • The application form (SRG 1320) needs to be completed - which also contains a link to the CAA’s Scheme of Charges. The charge depends on the mass of the aircraft with 7 kg or less being a lower change than 7 kg-20 kg.

The CAA Permission needs to be renewed every 12 months (this is the same as for any other type of permission that the CAA grants). With regard to pilot qualifications, in order to grant a permission, some proof of the pilot’s overall airmanship skills and awareness and his/her ability to operate the aircraft safely will be required – this is not a ‘Civil Pilots Licence’, but it is an independent assessment of an individual’s knowledge and operating capabilities and is also a means for the CAA to ensure that everyone has at least the same basic knowledge.

Mowerman05/03/2015 13:41:23
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1542 forum posts
105 photos

On TV Monday night CH 4. The Gadget Show.

Jason Bradbury converted a 'drone' to use as a 'personal trainer' complete with air gun that shot the subject for under-performing.

Luckily cold water was poured on the idea by the 'experts' called in to asses the project on the grounds of legality and common sense.

The cast of this show act like big kids, a bit like Top Gear. (The Clarkson and Hamster Show)

Perhaps the show should be re-named The Bradbury and Gerbil Show.

Fred jones 105/03/2015 17:49:50
1 forum posts

I'm confused. Are the Lords proposing that "drones" be registered or "drone pilots"? Either way, how are they defining "drones"? An "expert" interviewed by the BBC earlier today mentioned the "danger to aircraft" posed by "drones" weighing 1.5Kg or more and "being flown at more than 500 feet". I'm not sure what he was an expert in, bur it obviously wasn't model aircraft. We need to keep a very close watch on this, or risk losing the freedom to enjoy what is a pretty safe hobby.

Peter Jenkins08/03/2015 18:01:44
1306 forum posts
132 photos

I understand that the Chief Executive of the BMFA has been to give evidence to the House of Lords Committee. The CAA has also issued a leaflet for retailers to hand to every customer who buys a mulit-rotor aircraft although, sadly, they didn't direct readers towards the BMFA. I believe that the BMFA discusses this issue regularly with the CAA. The BMFA also published an A and B schedule for Multi-rotors last year and has indicated it's welcome to multi-rotor operators. I'm not sure whether this welcome is extended by all Clubs though. There again, some clubs don't welcome helis either.

A recent report from the USA indicated that regulations are being drafted that will kill Amazon's idea of drone delivery - and rightly so! I certainly wouldn't want to answer the door to a drone delivery!

If there is a knee jerk reaction by the authorities to any "drone-related" incidents, I am reasonably confident that they will be influenced by the BMFA to ensure that bona fide BMFA members are allowed to continue with their lawful activities at their Club sites. It might be that Club Sites are formally recognised as places from which miniature air vehicles are able to operate. Be good if that worked in favour of retaining use of such sites!

andyh08/03/2015 18:05:50
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the Royal Parks have now banned drones:

**LINK**

John Privett08/03/2015 19:08:26
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5994 forum posts
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Not just "drones" Andy, but all model aircraft.

I don't know if any model flying took place legitimately in any of the other Royal Parks, but it certainly did in Richmond Park. I can only assume that has been stopped by this Order.

Paul Marsh08/03/2015 19:18:01
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3779 forum posts
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I agree with that. I did put a thread on a while ago, that drone users - or whatever we call them should be under a national register, educating and highlighting the terms of use regarding proper use.

Don Fry08/03/2015 19:38:40
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4267 forum posts
49 photos

Don't be complacent.

Hunting law aimed at fox hunting, reality, can't legislate against that, and a load of other dog related hunting goes to the wall. And the fox hunters are still there

Shooting, one madman, and pistols are banned, can't differentiate between users, so olimpic sportsmen are banned. Pond life still have pistols.

Be very afraid. The comments above, regarding us and them will count for very little if legislation is planned. Try explaining to a civil servant drafting legislation that one toy Is different to another toy. Or a politician, once on the move to deliver ligistlation. By their nature they work to please more than they upset, and we are a very small minority.

On a lighter note I have finally tamed my RCV SP60. A very sweet runner now, but it's been a trial.

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