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Why the Vacuum???

Sakti3 Batteries - The next big thing?

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John Norman17/03/2015 18:00:04
5 forum posts

I expected rousing cheers but have heard naught at the news Sir James Dyson is launching into new battery technology that could delight us all. It was writ large in the D.Mail yesterday that he'll be using Li-ion batteries developed by a firm called Sakti3 which are smaller than conventional Li-ion cells, more powerful & more robust with the liquid electrolyte replaced with a coating of non-flammable metal. Sounds a winner - but how much is tabloid tosh I wonder? Perhaps we're all a bit cynical where batteries are concerned

Dave Bran17/03/2015 18:31:18
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1898 forum posts
5 photos

How many times have we been promised the "ultimate battery"? Ask Prius owners needing a mortgage to get new pack for their tin box!

Any sensible person will just wait and see, with an emphasis on the wait................wink 2

roger graves17/03/2015 18:34:46
150 forum posts

I'm still trying to understand the Dyson Digital electric motor.

FastFlyer Smyth17/03/2015 18:40:02
309 forum posts
11 photos

I got rid of a Honda Insight due to the 7 grand replacement battery cost !

Dave Hopkin17/03/2015 18:41:15
3672 forum posts
294 photos
Posted by roger graves on 17/03/2015 18:34:46:

I'm still trying to understand the Dyson Digital electric motor.

From what I understand its just a brushless motor as the speed controller pulses the various parts of the windings is now the vogue to class anything that has a vaguely binary componemt as being "digital" - if thats the case I fly digital planes (badly) but am a dab hand with my digital light switch!

Bill_B17/03/2015 18:56:42
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1145 forum posts
11 photos

Considering the amount of Dyson vacuum cleaners that are omnipresent within our council tips on any given day of the week, I won't be holding my breath that his batteries will be any better. dont know

Cuban817/03/2015 19:08:01
2822 forum posts
1 photos

Bought a Dyson some years ago - biggest waste of £150. Brittle plastic, just fell to bits.no All that tosh about not losing vacuum...........Our 'Henry' is miles better and if it does lose a bit of suck when the bag's full, it's not noticeable.

andyh17/03/2015 19:09:39
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422 forum posts
22 photos
Posted by Dave Hopkin on 17/03/2015 18:41:15:
From what I understand its just a brushless motor as the speed controller pulses the various parts of the windings is now the vogue to class anything that has a vaguely binary componemt as being "digital" - if thats the case I fly digital planes (badly) but am a dab hand with my digital light switch!

I fly digitally - thumb & index finger on each hand

Chris Bott - Moderator17/03/2015 19:19:47
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6701 forum posts
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1 articles

The Sakti3 batteries are full of promise, OK we've all heard that before, but their aim is to produce safer batteries with a higher power density than we have at present and at a much cheaper price. Now that has to be just what we are after.

From what I've found over the last few days, they have proved their technology but only on a very small scale.

With Dyson's backing they can now scale up. If the batteries are then proved in Dyson products, then maybe the sky really is the limit. Rechargeable vacuum cleaners sound to me like they might use our sized batteries. So maybe there will be a spin off for us.

If it all comes together then the cheapness of manufacture comes from the fact that Sakti have all along been designing their technology to be manufactured using low cost, existing machinery.

Fingers crossed, I say.

As I mentioned in a different thread earlier today - try googling Sakti3 - there's a lot of news articles out there.

For example **LINK**

And - a presentation if you have a spare 10 mins..

Erfolg17/03/2015 20:35:15
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11501 forum posts
1259 photos

As many others I did read about the Dyson investment with Sakt3 in the business section of my newspaper. From a modellers view point, it did not tell us much, although you sensed a promise.

As has been suggested, I will wait and see. Although this work seems to be another potential development, amongst many other potential battery developments.

It does strike me, that many get very excited with the dangers of Lipo type batteries, yet with even higher energy densities, the potential from an unintended release in energy also increase. In the case of petrol, the dangers are very real, as with many other similar fuels, although they are very well understood and managed, to the extent that even the layman is pretty much protected from themselves, unless bordering on or being reckless. At present this does not seem to be the case with Lipos. When higher energy density storage devices do arrive, I can envisage that there will be some lurid events, where those involved will be saying I just looked at it and it exploded.

It is also important to us modellers that the  attribute of power density per gram is as good or better than that of the Lipo. I am not sure that even the volume of the device is as important as weight. Although our lipos come in some very convenient envelope configurations.

I have wondered if even the common Lipo could be made safer, by having a more robust wrapper, that would resist, puncture and improve fire resistance. i guess not, or some one would have done the obvious.

I will look forward to any battery improvements, although what we now have is pretty good.

Edited By Erfolg on 17/03/2015 20:39:14

ROY DAVIES 117/03/2015 20:46:10
139 forum posts

There is a lot of market potential in these batteries if they can bring them to production at the right price. The aerospace industry will grab them with both hands especially Boeing ! It could be the next revolution after Lipo's any one remember DEACS. They were The battery to use once upon a time.

Let's hold our breath and hope.

Don Fry17/03/2015 20:48:10
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4267 forum posts
49 photos

I read the article, claiming increases charge density. All the technology seems to claim is packing the ampere hours in a smaller pack, not a lighter pack. Can't be sure as the journo who wrote it may or may not have gone to school.

But a lot of money is being spent on lithium battery technology

Levanter17/03/2015 20:54:15
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882 forum posts
437 photos

Lipos score because their architecture does not need them to have a hard case to hold the internal components in a fixed and very close proximity position. Add a case and the weight goes up giving them very little advantage over LiFe, Li-ion, LNMC or other high energy density batteries.

Erfolg17/03/2015 20:58:25
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11501 forum posts
1259 photos

It does seem that a better rapper would be ideal. By better I mean, puncture resistant, fire resistant, at less weight.

Shaunie17/03/2015 22:23:44
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943 forum posts
78 photos

Regarding the dyson digital motor. They could hardly call it "brushless" as a brushless vacuum cleaner probably would not sell. So they had to name it something else and it's got a micro controller in it so it's bound to be "digital".

shaunie.

Erfolg17/03/2015 22:46:10
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11501 forum posts
1259 photos

As with many aspects of Dysons claims, they are a triumph of hype and over blown claims, over reality.

I think you are suggesting that in reality the Dyson motor is a reluctance motor, not new, although i would guess he has managed to register some aspect as either copyright or even a patent.

In essence this no different to the claim that Dyson has invented the cyclone separator. These devices have been used in industry for at least 100 years, for the transfer of materials such as flour, or for example the separation of heavy material from lighter. I can only imagine that his patents have been granted for domestic use. All the other concepts of cascading and sequential arrangements can be found in text books, dating from possibly 50 or more years ago.

Yet I must admit we have had a number of his vacuum cleaners and they do work better than the conventional bag type. With the bag type as with all impingement types, they filter better when virtually clogged, when new, quite a lot of dust just gets through the bag, or paper and back into the environment from where it was drawn.

I guess I just wish I had half of his nowse in taking old ideas and successfully marketing them.

onetenor18/03/2015 03:59:53
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1901 forum posts

Battery considerations aside could we make use of the motors? There should be a few knocking about if they fall apart as often as is claimed. Just one problem is you have to be on very good terms with the guys at the local tip to take stuff out of the yard. Any takers?

cymaz18/03/2015 06:18:45
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8880 forum posts
1176 photos

Our dyson hates sucking up stuff off a vinyl floor, it just pushes around in front of the head

Dave Bran18/03/2015 07:56:42
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1898 forum posts
5 photos

I have two Vacs, both given to me by family broken after careful use, and repaired/modded. Son re-bought another, and that too has failed after a couple of years.

As a career engineer I think the build quality is suspect for the price point and the design concept is right on the edge of common sense. I liken them to Sinclair products of the 80's, they work........sort of.

As to using ex-Dyson motors in RC, not for me thanks, let me know how you get on !!!

Bottom Line, their attaching their name to a new battery tech is no reason to get excited, but hey, you never know, so I'll look from arms length, while hiding behind the sofa.............

Dave Hopkin18/03/2015 08:26:51
3672 forum posts
294 photos

There are so many commercial drivers pushing research dollars at battery technology that the whole playing field is going to change probably dramatically over the next few years - both in terms of Energy per gram, recharge time and production costs

There is a huge potential automotive industry waiting for a battery technology that can rival the "recharge" convienance of IC cars - Electric (full size) aircraft are on the verge of commercial production, and the ever increasing power consumption demands of the phone/tablet/ipod industry will drive miniaturisation

I think in maybe 10 years we will be saying.. "sheesh do you remember those huge old lipos we used to use, like bricks they were"

Edited By Dave Hopkin on 18/03/2015 08:27:06

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