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New Car Tax Rules Is Causing A Lot of Confusion

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Dai Fledermaus21/04/2015 08:55:54
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Looks like the new car tax rules are catching a lot of motorists out

LINK

Luke Lane21/04/2015 10:02:00
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Thanks Dai for the heads up on that.

I've noticed that when you get a reminder through the post, that they no longer enclose a slip of paper advising of any changes in the law or regulations. Like all transactions I carry out on line, I keep copies of invoices & confirmations. Also of note, regarding car tax, is that you can now pay monthly via direct debit.

Cuban821/04/2015 10:53:40
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Two issues here really.

Despite mass communication being part of our lives, some of the public will always claim to never have heard of something or other. The changes to the road tax regs has been in the papers, on the tele and radio and on the various news websites. Unless one lives totally cut-off from the 21st century, I don't accept the "I didn't know" excuse.

However............the change itself is nothing short of a scandal and is just a money grabbing, double taxing rip-off.

Monz21/04/2015 11:19:40
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How is it a double taxing ripoff? When you sell a car you get a refund on the tax remaining, when you buy it you tax it from purchase. Set it up to pay via direct debit and you only pay for the tax you use.

From the comments: "Anyone who cannot understand the law should not be driving to begin with."

Martyn K21/04/2015 11:37:54
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I agree with Monz - it's not too difficult to understand and I believe this process brings us in line with most of Europe.

There is a potential tax benefit to the government, for example if you sell a car mid month, you only get a refund from the beginning of the following month and the buyer still has to tax from the beginning of the current month. However, a wise seller will sell his/her vehicle at the end of the calendar month if its deemed an issue. No big deal.

At least now you get a refund - previously the outstanding tax was normally gifted to the next buyer, unless you are dealing at the scrap end of the car market it will have no impact on the sale price

Martyn

trebor21/04/2015 11:42:10
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It's about time they put the tax on the fuel, it would be a lot more fair. Those using the road more pay more. It would do away with all this messing about.

IanN21/04/2015 11:48:18
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Posted by Martyn K on 21/04/2015 11:37:54:

I agree with Monz - it's not too difficult to understand and I believe this process brings us in line with most of Europe.

There is a potential tax benefit to the government, for example if you sell a car mid month, you only get a refund from the beginning of the following month and the buyer still has to tax from the beginning of the current month. However, a wise seller will sell his/her vehicle at the end of the calendar month if its deemed an issue. No big deal.

At least now you get a refund - previously the outstanding tax was normally gifted to the next buyer, unless you are dealing at the scrap end of the car market it will have no impact on the sale price

Martyn

Disagree that it's only a "potential tax benefit to the government" and "no big deal".

Having just come out of co car scheme and had to purchase privately it is completely impractical to decide to only buy/sell at the end of the calendar month. The best stuff (obviously) sells first - you have to buy when the car you want becomes available, before someone else does

The current system of only refunding the seller any remaining full months, and making the new owner pay from the start of that month, is nothing more than a revenue generating complete rip off. In this digital age how hard would it really be to start/end tax on the day of purchase/sale - it isn't exactly a hard calculation

Michael Ramsay-Fraser21/04/2015 11:52:01
222 forum posts
Posted by Monz on 21/04/2015 11:19:40:

How is it a double taxing ripoff?

Because, I think I'm correct in saying, you only get a full month refund. Therefore, if you sell your car towards the end of the month, the vendor only gets a refund (if one is due) to the end of the previous month whilst the purchaser has to tax the car from the beginning of the month in which he or she buys it. Hence, double tax paying rip off.

Cuban821/04/2015 11:59:12
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Posted by Monz on 21/04/2015 11:19:40:

How is it a double taxing ripoff? When you sell a car you get a refund on the tax remaining, when you buy it you tax it from purchase. Set it up to pay via direct debit and you only pay for the tax you use.

From the comments: "Anyone who cannot understand the law should not be driving to begin with."

Until recently, tax was paid on the vehicle by the owner and was sold on with the vehicle if any remained..........simple & easy. Now we have to faff around with claiming a refund - if less than a month to run, no refund available and the government then gets its double whammy.

If there's only a few months to run, I still reckon a lot of people won't bother to mess about claiming a refund and will just load their loss onto the sale price. Again HMG is the winner!

if that's not a ripoff, then I don't know what is.

Martyn K21/04/2015 12:07:14
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Apparently you don't need to claim, you get refunded automatically.

Martyn

IanN21/04/2015 12:09:37
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Yes, that's correct, you do

However, the essential point is that the Govt end up with two lots of tax for the month in which the vehicle is purchased for the great majority of private used car sales

Edited By IanN on 21/04/2015 12:12:14

Monz21/04/2015 12:50:03
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Posted by Cuban8 on 21/04/2015 11:59:12:
Posted by Monz on 21/04/2015 11:19:40:

How is it a double taxing ripoff? When you sell a car you get a refund on the tax remaining, when you buy it you tax it from purchase. Set it up to pay via direct debit and you only pay for the tax you use.

From the comments: "Anyone who cannot understand the law should not be driving to begin with."

Until recently, tax was paid on the vehicle by the owner and was sold on with the vehicle if any remained..........simple & easy. Now we have to faff around with claiming a refund - if less than a month to run, no refund available and the government then gets its double whammy.

If there's only a few months to run, I still reckon a lot of people won't bother to mess about claiming a refund and will just load their loss onto the sale price. Again HMG is the winner!

if that's not a ripoff, then I don't know what is.

Yes, okay, I see your point.

I'm not going to quit driving though laugh

Andy Symons - BMFA21/04/2015 20:18:11
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Posted by trebor on 21/04/2015 11:42:10:

It's about time they put the tax on the fuel, it would be a lot more fair. Those using the road more pay more. It would do away with all this messing about.

Those using the road more already pay a lot more through fuel duty.

Bill_B21/04/2015 20:52:15
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Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 21/04/2015 20:18:11:
Posted by trebor on 21/04/2015 11:42:10:

It's about time they put the tax on the fuel, it would be a lot more fair. Those using the road more pay more. It would do away with all this messing about.

Those using the road more already pay a lot more through fuel duty.

I agree with Trebor and it would capture tax off a certain traveling group and those immigrants that "no understand Inglis".

Using your argument Andy, why should a pensioner who perhaps only uses his car once or twice a week pay the same tax as someone who does a thousand miles a week? The pensioner is hardly making an impact on the highway wear & tear rate, where as the high mileage motorist is hammering it, thus he should pay more, a lot more.

Andy Symons - BMFA21/04/2015 21:19:19
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They arent paying the same tax though. The person who does a 1000 miles a week is probably paying £80+ (estimate) extra each week in fuel duty.

 

I'm not saying its a bad idea as such just commenting that those that do more miles already pay a lot more. Well apart from all those lorries that fill up on the continent of course.

Edited By Andy Symons - BMFA on 21/04/2015 21:21:01

cymaz21/04/2015 21:23:30
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I suspect this change is to catch the tax dodgers more easily. They can't hide behind a car sale now once that tax has run out.

If you buy a car , you tax it...simple. If you don't ...tough, your problem.

john stones 121/04/2015 22:18:36
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Posted by trebor on 21/04/2015 11:42:10:

It's about time they put the tax on the fuel, it would be a lot more fair. Those using the road more pay more. It would do away with all this messing about.

Then industry will pass the extra cost back to you with increased prices for your goods, so you end up back where you started.

John

Michael Ramsay-Fraser21/04/2015 23:26:50
222 forum posts
Posted by Bill_B on 21/04/2015 20:52:15:

Using your argument Andy, why should a pensioner who perhaps only uses his car once or twice a week pay the same tax as someone who does a thousand miles a week? The pensioner is hardly making an impact on the highway wear & tear rate, where as the high mileage motorist is hammering it, thus he should pay more, a lot more.

So how about us pensioners that live in more remote rural parts of the country? If I want to visit my doctor, i have a 30 mile round trip. When I go to the hospital for my cardio rehab after my recent heart attack, its a 60 mile round trip. Or do you suggest I give up my retirement home in the country and move to the council estate next to the hospital? Even a trip to the shops is over 30 miles there and back. Frankly, I'd rather pay a higher car tax than see it lumped on fuel.

It should also be pointed out that it's no longer 'Road Tax', it's 'Vehicle Excise Duty' based on emissions. The concept that the 'tax' paid for the upkeep of the roads is so out of date and unrealistic it should be consigned to the dark ages.

Dave from the future22/04/2015 00:00:05
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22 forum posts
Posted by Michael Ramsay-Fraser on 21/04/2015 11:52:01:
Posted by Monz on 21/04/2015 11:19:40:

How is it a double taxing ripoff?

Because, I think I'm correct in saying, you only get a full month refund. Therefore, if you sell your car towards the end of the month, the vendor only gets a refund (if one is due) to the end of the previous month whilst the purchaser has to tax the car from the beginning of the month in which he or she buys it. Hence, double tax paying rip off.

Nothing's changed though, it's always been the case that you could send back an tax disk for a refund, and you only got the whole remaining months back. My wife does it regularly, she has a car she only uses in the summer and cshes in the tax disk when she takes the car off the road.

avtur22/04/2015 00:24:25
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The refund of tax when selling a car occurs automatically when the seller submits the V5 document to the DVLA, in the past some people have been rather slow to submit V5 forms, the DVLA hope that because it is the V5 which triggers the tax refund it will be an incentive for sellers to submit the V5 as soon as they can.

It doesn't matter what day of the month a car is bought/sold the government receives double payment for that month, the refund is only for complete months, regardless of the V5 being submitted in the first or last week of the month. The buyer has to tax the car from the first of the month he buys it, again regardless of whether the transaction is in the first week or that last week of the month.

In some peoples minds there 'might' be an incentive to buy earlier in the month to get the best value for the first month; equally in other peoples minds there might be an incentive to sell later in the month to get best value for the month their last month of tax. I really can't se this having an impact on peoples buying and selling habits; life's too short for that.

As for taking road tax from a levy on fuel, it'll be a long time before that happens (IMHO) ... regardless of the perceived fairness of making that change i.e. pay for what you use, it will require a very brave government to implement this just because no one will want to be associated with imposing that rise on the price of petrol.

Also it IS now called Vehicle Tax, is used to be called Vehicle Excise Duty because the use of the word tax was deemed unpopular, so calling it duty was supposed to distract us from the idea that it was a further tax on motorist. If you take a look at the government website all reference are now to Vehicle Tax ... yes based on CO2 emissions.

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