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Priory Lancaster

Advice & help needed

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winchweight10/02/2008 13:00:00
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2516 forum posts
67 photos

Hi guys, I went to our local swappie today and walked away with a 75% built Lanc. The guy has fitted 4 x brushless bell motors already, an elevator servo and has begun covering the wing (badly). The kit was complete except for the instructions (?) and the horizontal tail plane. He wanted £40 and I paid £20.

So, who's got one, built one, wants to share some advice with me then?

Tim Mackey10/02/2008 13:03:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
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Youre gonna need a bigger garage winchy

Lets have some piccies then....

Tim Mackey10/02/2008 13:14:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles

Incidentally, I presume you realise that you will need 4 seperate ESCs for all the motors. This was originally designed for speed 400 brushed motors, which could be run using just one ESC...but then these days we are all brushless motors arent we. Anyway....have a looksee at BRC and flyingwings.co.uk etc for suitable escs.

Remember also the potential for a motor cutting due to LVC on one ESC acting before the others, even using a single battery supply will not avoid this potential problem. My advice.....NEVER fly so long as to allow the LVC to get near to acting. As soon as you note a drop off in power of the slightest amount...shout FINALS and land.

Then note the time flown and set this in your tranny alarm timer for all future flights.

I have read some excellent flight reports from some peeps about this very model, including Nigel hawes himself I believe.

You got a real bargain.....PS hows the Jag looking lately?

motor and ESC combo

Or just the ESCs...cheap as chips these days . Try this at Flying Wing co ( shopping partner on here )

ESC

Dave Bran10/02/2008 16:22:00
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1898 forum posts
5 photos

I have seen one of these fly..........correction, I have seen one of these TRY to fly.

The guy had fitted undercart, it had the std brushed setup but with the more powerful motors (I was told). It did a sharp 90 degrees left to crosswind light breeze on each take off "run"  (walk, more like).

When it did finally get off the ground it droned around "like a bomber", and looked very nice, but needed all the thrust it could get to stay aloft, and was prone to dropping the tail in turns.

 SO, Don't contemplate going back to a brushed setup, AND KEEP IT LIGHT..should be fine.................let us know..............

Eric Bray10/02/2008 16:26:00
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6600 forum posts
2 photos
If the tail was dipping, it was only just above the stall, and maybe with a rearward c of g, too.
winchweight10/02/2008 18:11:00
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2516 forum posts
67 photos

Hi guys. Thanks for the replies. I was thinking of using HiModel 15A ESCs which are about £8 each. For £20, I can't really fall off.  What battery pack? The other thing I bought was a Sullivan Hi Torque starter for a quid! It does look like it's been buried in the garden for a year, but it works, although the switch is knackered.

Timbo - The Jag is gorgeous as ever, resplendant in it's new garage. The garage is filling up nicely, 49 sq metres on the ground and again in the loft soon fills up. Power and lighting is now applied in the garage, so I'll get sme photos.

PS - The Sea Fury flew today, cowls on etc - flippin' brill! Also the Air Blaster leccy job I got for Xmas - lovely little thing, the lipos give it a good long flight too.

Photos and movie later (after tea).

Tim Mackey10/02/2008 19:20:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles

The 20A version is only £10, and will give a better safety margin IMO.

battery depends on your motors - which ones are they ? Assuming current draw of around 10A -12A  a piece, thats up to 48A in total so you need a pack capable of supplying say 40A (in the air ).

A 3300 m/a hr pack @ say 12C, will give 5 minutes WOT -so allowing for moderate throttle use,  expect a good 6 - 8 minutes duration.

Of course all this depends on final AUW and the motors used. 

winchweight10/02/2008 20:34:00
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2516 forum posts
67 photos

Fairy nuff. I am not sure which ones they are yet. I think they are the cheapo 2410-12 bell out runners.

As an aside, the Air Blaster flew well but is very docile. Could I ramp it up with a different prop?

PS The Sea Fury vid is now online!

Tim Mackey10/02/2008 22:23:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles

Yep seen the vid - great, and I MUST get up to that trerrific site of yours sometime !

A bigger pitch prop will increase the speed of the Blaster, but of course the amps will increase, and duration fall.

If the lancs mototrs are the 2410-12s , they are good for only around 90 WAtts MAX. As I said, it all depends on the final AUW I guyess, and the lanc is a bit of a draggy beast, so perhaps these will be a bit marginal, they are only really happy on 10A or so. That makes 360 watts in total, so up to about 4lb AUW should be ok.

If you want to upgrade them a bit, try this combo on a 3s Lipo - four of 'em should be good for up to around 7lb!

forum shopping partner

Incidentally, you might want to check out the last few postings on this thread Here 

- we are discussing a nice little gizmo which should take the worry out of a motor cutting due to the ESC LVC. The module will shut throttle to 2 motors instantly if a battery cell is detected as having gone down too low. On the Lanc, I would fit 2 devices, and wire things up so that one battery powers 2 outboard motors via 1 x DPM. Fit an identical setup to the two inboard motors, and voila ! Now if a motor wants to slow or stop due to low battery, a motor on each wing will still be lit to execute a safer landing with no torque yaw.

scott cuppello11/02/2008 15:39:00
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874 forum posts
82 photos

On our B-17 @ 6lbs, using 400 class ,1350kv motors [you are limited to 8" props, we use 8x6] x 4, on 3s, total power of the four motors is 500 watts. We found it needed a lot of power to get off the ground, but then you were throttling back to 1/3 throttle for scale flying......we also found 3 blade props pretty useless on this kind of weight, I think it would take a lot of experimentation, unless somebody has already cracked it......you must get this right, or the maiden could be short/hairy!

winchweight11/02/2008 17:34:00
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2516 forum posts
67 photos

Cheers guys. I have had a reply from Ray from Priory and he says stick to 400 brushed as most conversions to brushless have failed!

I'm guessing that the cheapy bell outrunners installed are not man enough for the job?

Tim Mackey11/02/2008 17:56:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles

Well that is a bit of a sweeping staement isnt it! I can think of only one reason why he would say that, and it cant be anything to do wiith power or performance. Any self respecting leccy flier knows that brushless motors are FAR more efficient than brushed, and combined with the power to weight ratio of Lithium batteries there is just no comparison IMO.

I suspect that when he says most conversons have failed, he is referring to the problems ( NOT insurmountable incidentally ) I mentioned earlier with a motor or 2 cutting out before the rest. A bog standard 400 series motor is around 70% efficient at absolute best, and normally closer to just 60%. Compare that to the potential 90% efficiency of a good brushless when mated to the right battery and prop.

By all means, - buy some noisy old sparky old 400 cans if you must, and while your at it, dont forget to pick up a starting handle for your car

For me ....its a no brainer.

Remember to buy at least 8 spare speed 400 motors, as the brushes will be worn out after about a dozen flights.

scott cuppello11/02/2008 18:23:00
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874 forum posts
82 photos

brushed? BRUSHED?....Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....like the Timbo says, they have failed due to bad choices.

winchweight11/02/2008 22:15:00
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2516 forum posts
67 photos

I did smile wryly.

It'll be brushless, fret not.

Tim Mackey11/02/2008 22:25:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles
Hope you have spotted the link I gave earlier to decent setups, and also the DPM system.
winchweight12/02/2008 07:11:00
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2516 forum posts
67 photos

I did. I was planning to use the motors that were already installed though, otherwise this becomes quite expensive (4 x £32), and because the wing is already assembled with the motors installed and I'm not sure how easily they'll come out again.

As for the DPM, you're talking a foreign language, but I get the gist of it. Being Graupner, I guess it's not cheap though, as I can't find it in the UK as all the links refer to chargers.

Tim Mackey12/02/2008 10:00:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles
The link is on that thread Mr Chant...just seek and ye shall find - and it is surprisingly inexpensive, especially compared to a dead motor on a lanc
Peter Wood07/09/2011 17:11:08
244 forum posts
Posted by Tim Mackey on 10/02/2008 19:20:00:

The 20A version is only £10, and will give a better safety margin IMO.

battery depends on your motors - which ones are they ? Assuming current draw of around 10A -12A a piece, thats up to 48A in total so you need a pack capable of supplying say 40A (in the air ).

A 3300 m/a hr pack @ say 12C, will give 5 minutes WOT -so allowing for moderate throttle use, expect a good 6 - 8 minutes duration.

Of course all this depends on final AUW and the motors used.

What prop please
 
Peter
Tim Mackey07/09/2011 18:09:47
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles
Uuuh, I could do with a bit more info really - after all this is a 3yr old thread
iawnski07/09/2011 19:52:55
1076 forum posts
28 photos
chuck the motors out and use it as a glider niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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