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Matador etc

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Poppy the Frenchy23/01/2016 18:25:31
23 forum posts

Hi all, I need help with electric set up, I've jot a clue as I used to be an IC bloke for 30 years.

I'm refurbing an original Mercury matador and a scaled down version of a Mercury Galahad of 40",

I want go electric with them but not a clue on motors or speed controllers and batteries, agh! Can you help?

Dave Hopkin23/01/2016 18:51:47
3672 forum posts
294 photos

General rule of thumb is you need 100 Watts per Pound weight, but something like a Matador could be as low as 80W/lb

I would think a motor of around 800kv running on a 3S would be in the ball park, but there will probably be someone on here who has electrified a Matador and can answer better

The ESC you need to make sure that it can handle at lest 10% more than max load current

Poppy the Frenchy23/01/2016 19:05:05
23 forum posts

Thankyou Dave, I'll look into the weight of it, but does that inlcude the radio etc as part if the weight or just the airframe.

Dave Hopkin23/01/2016 19:17:25
3672 forum posts
294 photos

All up weight..... radio, lipo, servos the lot

Edited By Dave Hopkin on 23/01/2016 19:17:47

Poppy the Frenchy23/01/2016 19:37:28
23 forum posts

I've just weighed it, it's 17oz without lipo, I dont have lips yet., many thanks For the info, I'll be busy looking for deals this evening

PatMc23/01/2016 20:23:24
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4223 forum posts
521 photos

I have a Veron Deacon which, at 57" span, is a bit bigger than the Matador but has the same power requirements.
Deacon power train data is : motor weight 57g, 1050kv, 3s 1300 lipo, 8x4 APC prop, an 18A ESC. At WOT 10.3A, 118W, 9900rpm. Model weighs 27oz RTF - so that's 70W/lb.
That has proved bags of power since it's first flight in 2009, the model takes off without problem from our grass strip with a good rate of climb, it can be looped & rolled with ease. Most of the time it fown at under 1/2 throttle.

BTW the power is about equal to a good 1.5cc diesel or 09 glow. e.g. an AM10 or Enya 09.

Poppy the Frenchy23/01/2016 20:50:28
23 forum posts

Hey PatMc that's great news, I've been looking for suppliers and don't know which will give me best value for money as the matador won't be used often, so don't want to spend loads on it.

Denis Watkins23/01/2016 20:51:17
3914 forum posts
61 photos

Hi Buffy

Look up the Emax BL2210/25 950kv, and its equivalents is in your ballpark,

And match this to an ESC that you may look at both Lipo set ups in 2s and 3s configuration.

If weight becomes an issue, then at least a good 2s will give you a chance

If you need more balast, then make the balast a 3s battery

Denis Watkins23/01/2016 20:54:22
3914 forum posts
61 photos

Your model is 17ozs

The 27oz example is a good guide, but at these small sizes, is more than 50% heavier

PatMc23/01/2016 20:58:38
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4223 forum posts
521 photos

Denis, there's no difference in weight between a 2s & a 3s setup for the same duration & power requirements. However a 2s would need a higher current ESC.

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator23/01/2016 20:58:50
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6727 forum posts
191 photos

If you type Matador into the search box a few threads come up.....

Chris Botts Matty had power pods for both diesel & electric power...

Lee Damms23/01/2016 20:59:03
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225 forum posts
64 photos

Hi, Buffy Mines powered by an emax2812 145w motor using 1300mah 3s lipos it's more than ample to power it. I covered mine in litespan if you do a search in the keyword box for matador you'll see at least mine and Chris Botts build blogs. I increased the rudder size a little and would also recommend increasing the elevator size by a small amount. I needed down and right thrust plus 20grammes of lead in the nose. I found litespan a pig to use and if I ever recover her it will be in solartex dispite it's weight. Good luck.

Lee

Chris Bott - Moderator23/01/2016 21:12:21
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6672 forum posts
1384 photos
1 articles
See page 5 of my thread. It looks like I have a total of 100watts in mine, and it flies very nicely. Don't over power it. It's designed to pootle around quite gently. Too much power exposes some undesirable tendencies.
Denis Watkins23/01/2016 21:14:18
3914 forum posts
61 photos

Sorry chaps, let me explain my lightweight flys on both 2s and 3s , calm abd breezy settings loi

The 1000mah 2s weights 57 grm

The 1000mah 3s weighs 101grm

So I stuck my neck out and assumed that 3 rectangular containers of chemicals, weighed more than the same size and make of assembly made up of 2 rectangular ontainers of chemicals

Conversely, if you had 5 house bricks, and put 2, on the end of a seesaw, and 3 on the other end of the seesaw, the end with the 2 house bricks would rise

Or if say you had 5 identical buses, and you put 2 buses................... .

Poppy the Frenchy23/01/2016 21:14:55
23 forum posts

Many thanks lads, it's at 17oz without covering but the wing is in solartex but it's original from the 70's and the wing is so straight I thought I would leave and solar film over it the fuselage has been stripped due to a soggy deisel front end, rebuilt and will be solar filmed, I've got a 30mm elevator and a 30mm rudder and was hoping that should be sufficient. Chosen film over tissue or lite span as I want silver wings/tail plane and sky blue fuselage, I used to have on a Galahad back in the 80's and it looked great.

I will be using you generous information guys to my best achievements.

PatMc23/01/2016 21:34:36
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4223 forum posts
521 photos
Posted by Denis Watkins on 23/01/2016 21:14:18:

Sorry chaps, let me explain my lightweight flys on both 2s and 3s , calm abd breezy settings loi

The 1000mah 2s weights 57 grm

The 1000mah 3s weighs 101grm

So I stuck my neck out and assumed that 3 rectangular containers of chemicals, weighed more than the same size and make of assembly made up of 2 rectangular ontainers of chemicals

Conversely, if you had 5 house bricks, and put 2, on the end of a seesaw, and 3 on the other end of the seesaw, the end with the 2 house bricks would rise

Or if say you had 5 identical buses, and you put 2 buses................... .

You're not comparing like with like.

Taking 1s as 3.7v - 1000mAH 2s has the energy capacity of 1Watt hour whilst 1000mAH 3s has the capacity of 1.5Watt hour.

Following on from that it would need 1500mAH 2s to equal energy capacity of 1000mAH 3s. i.e. they would both weigh aproximately the same.

PatMc24/01/2016 09:03:07
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4223 forum posts
521 photos

Edited to correct error :

You're not comparing like with like.

Taking 1s as 3.7v - 1000mAH 2s has the energy capacity of 7.4 Watt hours whilst 1000mAH 3s has the capacity of 11.1 Watt hours.

Following on from that it would need 1500mAH 2s to equal energy capacity of 1000mAH 3s. i.e. they would both weigh aproximately the same for 11.1 WHr.

Edited By PatMc on 24/01/2016 09:04:39

Mike Etheridge 124/01/2016 09:33:14
1535 forum posts
429 photos

I did go through the same exercise a couple of years ago on an old Matador that eventually was successful and it was covered on this website. The plane is now stuck in my loft and perhaps my next move is to fit an OS 10 as it has flown with a brushed geared motor, a brushless motor and a PAW 1.5.

I can't remember the brushless motor details at present.

Matador 07-05-2012

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator24/01/2016 17:35:46
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Moderator
6727 forum posts
191 photos

Mikes thread is here

Brock Brock11/02/2017 22:18:55
1 forum posts
I am about to start building a Matador. It will be a blast from the past as it was the first r/c model I built and flew in 1966, I am no w 66 how time flies.I will be fitting an electric motor with rudder, elevator and I would like people's thoughts on adding ailerons. I realise ailerons are not in the spirit of the Matador however neither are electric motors or elevators and proportional control.

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