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West Wings Pinto

my verdict...

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JC16/02/2008 19:03:00
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283 forum posts
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Hi Guys

I have now got to grips with my Ripmax Coyote. After two weekends flying I can now get it inverted. It is a great model and I love flying it. I have seen the West Wings Pinto on various web sites. Would lt make a good model to move onto? It has the same controls as the Coyote(aileron elevator) but as a low wing is it different / more challenging to fly. I like the look of it. Any comments or suggestions or alternatives for a new aileron kite greatfully accepted. I really want a Ripmax Easy Street but cannot find one.

Regards

Jon 

Former Member16/02/2008 22:38:00

[This posting has been removed]

Angus Cargill16/04/2008 10:39:00
5 forum posts

I have just finnished and test flown said Pinto. Mine is finished in standard 'mustang' type colours, silver/yellow/red. Finding american decals was a nightmare. I eventually drew them out, coloured them in with felt-tips and then scanned and printed onto sticky back paper. I do have AUTOCAD LT--------just need about three months of training to use it!.

The model is powered by a 2914 thunder tiger outrunner and an old fashioned NiMH 8cell 1100 pack. It feels light and flies very well. it is fast with a 7X6 , will loop from level although not large loops , rolls are axial and smooth. The pack and motor are cool which suggests i am not pulling enough power from the batteries( I am getting a wattmeter for birthday) . I will try a 8X4 which should improve the aeros dramatically.  

POINTS TO WATCH: The kit was designed by an old expert and as such some of the techniques i found to be hard to get right, e.g. Rolling sheet balsa especially onto the hatch area which has no support during building. The tail area sheeting just does not work, better using soft block. BEWARE the wing ribs, the cutouts on mine were just too tight and they are so delicate that working on them can cause breakages and lots of cursing. there is no clue as to how to fix the hatch. I used two 3 amp chock block connectors released from there plastic cover and expoxied onto each side of the fuselage. two short pieces of w ire were then expoxied onto the hatch when the hatch is closed you just tighten the two screws.  I tried the review mthod of using just one aileron servo and this does work well,although some mods are required. Watch the wings for warps after covering! easy to put right with heat gun though.

EASY STREET.

Like you ,I lusted after one and some years ago bought one of the ARTF kits from ripmax.   IT WAS A  HEARTACHE.

Mine now does fly well BUT with high tech Typhoon 15 brushless outrunner and 2200 10 cell NiMH pack.-------and this is minimum to get it to fly well. ALL of the reviewers who sang its praises NEVER actually tried it with the stated mimimum (speed 600 and 7cell nicad.) trust me, it does not work. With only 42 inches of low drag wing its flying speed with nearly a pound and a half of batteries and motor is close to its stall speed and you will need a javelin thrower to launch it------ask me how I know this. after several re-bulids (a pound of batteries tends to break models on anything but perfect landings)  Anyway the secret of success is modern batteries and motors. Mine now works fine but my colleagues with Li-polys is so much better.           

  

Angus Cargill16/04/2008 11:13:00
5 forum posts

I am  a 'dabbler'  ,like a kid in a toyshop, try everything.   My interests span all of aeromodelling as such i am a master at nothing ,but enjoy it all.  

i have been seriously modelling for some 25years and joined Glenrothes aero modelling club in about 1978. I hold a 'silver'  in fixed wing RC although i am no aerobat.  I do a fair bit of training within the club and with the ATC which although time consumming is rewarding.  I have tried control line, slope soaring, a tad of thermal soaring, pylon racing and enjoyed it all.

My project at the moment is a Tony Nijhous 62 spit (how does he do it all ,?? ) I have always wanted a spit but never felt that i could do one justice until now. My resources are limited so i tend to build from plans (slowly)  I favour small electrics as I can see a result in a reasonable time.

I, have always  appreciated  the design talent which is in the hobby and love the free plans . Even the ones i do not intend to build I keep to pore over , like any classic they are an art form.  Seems that designers come in spates, with some real greats like Boddington etc. The work of the guys active at the moment is just   stunning.  Full of inovation and sheer skill. Tony Nijhous must be right up there with the best, but we also have  Nigel hawes, Alex whittaker, Peter miller and many others all doing something slightly different, how lucky are we?    what a great hobby.

David Ashby - Moderator16/04/2008 11:15:00
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Welcome Angus        Pop a bit on your profile when you have a moment - thanks.

Do you have a pic of the Pinto? It's a nice looking little model I always think.

Former Member16/04/2008 16:50:00

[This posting has been removed]

JC26/04/2008 09:58:00
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283 forum posts
53 photos

Thanks for the reply Angus

I,m building the Toucan at the moment and  find the instructions need to be read very carefully before going anywhere near the cyano. The canopy is my main worry. The whole set up is a bit strange and the instructions a bit vague.  I,m just trimming it a tiny bit at a time to get it to fit. Thanks for the advive on the Pinto I dont think I will get one as it may prove too frustrating to build, like the Toucan. Dont get me wrong the Toucan looks great and its not even covered but the instructions as mentioned require too much guess work.

regards

Jon 

Angus Cargill27/04/2008 22:09:00
5 forum posts

Hi Eric---------i am sure i have read some articles by yourself. Yes you are correct in all that you say, I just missed the trick. Especially with the wing sheeting, thing is It was on my mind all the way through, the wing never looked 'secure' but i went with the plan. Older and wiser.

As Jon has noticed with the Toucan though,  both models do require just a tad more experience than you might believe on first look. 

Can't complain about the flying properties, and all on 55Watts . 

I have a copy of the original guide to powering  electric models  and it quoted 50-60watts /pound for mild aero's -------have you noticed that the advice now is 100watts plus !!!!??  with 200watts /pound   not unusual. i know that this is easy to achieve these days but surely the airframes are not becomming heavier. Or is it just you can have more ergo you need more.

I will dig out my old steam driven 4.5 M camera and see if i can post a photo. 

Tim Mackey27/04/2008 22:17:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles
100 watts per pound is a very general guide, and does not apply to all types of models. Many slower flying and scsale /semi scale models will be quite happy at 60 or even 50 watts per pound....yet EDFs are better when closer to 200 watt per pound. It depends on model and flying style and so on....including having enough grunt to get off less than perfect grass strips! 100 WPLb is still reasonable yardstick, and it is better to be slightly overpowered than under.
Angus Cargill27/04/2008 22:30:00
5 forum posts

Yes I suppose we all want more , in the not so distant past ,even using NimH 100 plus watts /pound was not so easy to achieve . I am not sure what has been the biggest enabler , modern brushless motors or Li-pos . One thing for sure i am going to have upgrade to Li-po or Li-ion to tap into the likes of the fan trainer or that superb Mig 25.

Tim Mackey28/04/2008 09:15:00
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20920 forum posts
304 photos
15 articles

I think probably both are equally responsible for achieveing such great performance from electric powertrains these days. Lithium batteries are not the great mystery and unexploded bomb that some would have you believe. Treat then properly and have a disciplined routine about your handling of them and all will be fine.

Brushed motors....Hmm.... brushes are for floors

Engine Doctor30/04/2008 15:34:00
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2673 forum posts
44 photos

Hi all , I'm just building a pinto for a club mate . As said earlier there isn't a mention for the hatch fixing . I eventually fitted small circular Neodym magnets (available on interenet 50 for £2-99 inlc post ) 4mm dia X 1mm thick . works very well . The rolled balsa on the rear decking was reasonably easy although the hatch was trick as it has a compound curve. I planked this in the end using 1/2 " strip .Rest of air frame is straight forward although the sheet tail plane is likely to twist or warp . To solve tis I cut the tips off about 3/4" and replaced it with firm strip with the grain going from front to rear . This makes it more twist resistant . I am waiting now for the owner to send me the motor and servos before finishing it . Covering will be in Light span , very light  and strong but resembles tissue . More later .

E.D

David Atherton11/07/2008 17:28:00
9 forum posts

I built a pinto a few months back.

All the parts were an exellent fit,if a little tight in places,better too tight than loose!

I modified the front of mine and fit an SC12 and also modified the fin to include a rudder.

I was told by many that it would be way over powered and would rip to bits in no time,would be heavy and hard to balance.

Allthough i had to add a small amount of weight to the tail to balance it i can confirm the plane really flies beutifully and will do all aerobatic moves with ease,it flies like a much larger plane and isnt twitchy at all like a lot of smaller planes.

I mounted a 1/4 ply firewall farther back in the nose behind one of the existing formers with a normal plastic engine mount and a 2oz tank behind the firewall,the hatch was modified to fit nicely round the motor and i used a 6 gram servo for the throtle. It is so easy too hand launch,a gentle level through at half throttle is enough. belly landind is easy too,cut the throttle and it glides like a good un.

I didnt find anything hard about building the model,someone above said the top rear rolled turtle deck was not good enough,i had no trouble whatsoever in this area,cant see the problem.

I bought this plane as something to do and to use up some spare servo's and an SC12 i had around and its turned out to be the plane that lives in the boot of my car ready to fly whenever the chance pops up.

It isnt a trainer but its not hard to fly at all,its not a 3D machine that can bite,just a nice sport aerobatic flyer,just small.

Id recomend it to anyone,especially with an IC conversion,or brushless/lipo setup.

Its meant to have a speed 400 in it which iguess would give really poor performance.

Ive got some pics if anyone wants to see.

JC24/07/2008 11:24:00
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283 forum posts
53 photos

Hi all

The Toucan is allmost finished. It looks lovely. The instructions suggested using hinge tape for the rudder and elevator but I carefully inserted mylar hinges which look much better. I used white covering for the whole model less the underside of the wings for which I used transparent red to help with orientation in the air. the snakes provided dont take cyano so you need to replace them or use epoxy as I have.  The motor arrived today and will be fitted this weekend. It is an AEM 28 3650KV. The radio install is a bit fiddly so that will take a bit of adjustment. I intend to use a folding 6.4 prop with a 2 cell 1300Mahc 15c Lipo. Ive gota 30 amp ESC. Does anyone see this as being a problem? Sugestions?. I will try to post some pics when it is complete.

Regards

Jon

Bruce Richards24/07/2008 13:25:00
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1849 forum posts

Well Jon  by my calculation you are going to be spinning that prop a bit too fast.

A 2S Lipo is about 8V so 8 X 3650 RPM/volt  is just under 30 000 RPM you would need a very small prop to run at this speed. I do not know what a Toucan is but I think a motor with a Kv of about 1500, or less ,would be more suitable for your 2s setup.

Former Member24/07/2008 15:47:00

[This posting has been removed]

Mr Sam26/07/2008 23:52:00
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61 forum posts
random slightly OT question is your coyote EP powered ive got one but never really flown it just glider format at the moment but thinking about going power
Phil Winks28/07/2008 21:53:00
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2674 forum posts
693 photos
Just finished and flown my toucan its ballistic if you want and thats with a 1150kv 12A B/l outrunner pulling 114W on a Loong max 1300 3s 20c lipo with a JP 7x4 folding fan up front will pull largish loops from level forget the heavy batteries and can motors you'll never hit tgt weight with them mine tips the scales at 14oz and leves the ground easy with a gently chuck. yes the rockets are out of place just there for fun and to deter the fun jets at the patch
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/sites/3/images/member_albums/28234/Toucan_1_0.jpg

Phil Winks28/07/2008 22:15:00
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2674 forum posts
693 photos

As an addendum I ignored the instructions to use tape hinges and stuck mylar in plus due to lack of space couldn't get any side thrust in so mechanically trimed in about 1 or 2 degrees of right rudder which seems to work just as well. also I've read elswhere that the supplied snakes and clevis's don't take cyno. not my experience I used "mila" thin cyno and a kicker and it works fine. Mila is a upvc double glazing product so that may have some thing to do with it.

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/sites/3/images/member_albums/28234/SP_A0436.jpg

Lots of room for the electrics motor a little tight though

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/sites/3/images/member_albums/28234/SP_A0438.jpg

This idea for arming electrics I found on this forum brilliant idea
Simon B30/08/2009 17:41:06
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1936 forum posts
284 photos
Just thought i'd resurrect this thread to see if anyone else could add anything else in for building tips.  Having built the Toucan i know what is meant about stuff not being explained in the build, so i'm a bit apprehensive, but relishing the challenge.

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