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DB Sport And Scale - Cirrus Moth

First 'Proper' kit build.

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Martyn Johnston29/05/2009 10:29:58
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The instructions say to cut off the spars at the tip rip,
I obviously cut off the leading edge as well !
Then I noticed that the plan looks like the last inch of the leading edge is used to blend in to the wing tip.
So I cut the leading edge back, at a shallow angle and added a new end, using a bit of 1/4" hardwood as it was all I had available.
Doesn't show much on the photo but looks quite neat.
Martyn Johnston29/05/2009 10:32:17
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Now the scary bit.
After spending many hours building a beautiful set of wings the instructions say to cut the back off to make the ailerons.
Photo shows it marked where to cut.
Time for a biscuit before I go any further.
Martyn Johnston29/05/2009 10:34:30
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Too late now.
I hope I've read the instructions right here.
And hope I've measured everything twice.
Photos show the wing cut in two.
Ready for ailerons next.
 
Myron Beaumont29/05/2009 21:55:25
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Eddie
As a grumpy old builder & having read your comments over the last couple of days or so you can be ssuredI my next  model will be one of your kits !  I want a somethng or other for a 52  Fs .have got  2 SC's and one OS  Have to sign off 'cos this laptop has a mind of its own & giving me grief.I didn't miss the letter  A off the word assured
Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale29/05/2009 22:39:28
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Hello Myron,
 
No need to feel grumpy lad, we generally have something to please folks & cheer them up. There is a fair range of kits available for a couple of old codgers like me & me'ol' duch ter produce (we duz uz bestist).
 
Soon as yer laptop be'aves itself, have a look at our site, there are another couple of builds available to see, one currently happening on the Spitfire page & one completed on the Hurricane page. I am not in any way sugesting that you should go for those, but at least you can see what other kits of ours go together like.
 
Thank you for your interest in our products.
Myron Beaumont29/05/2009 23:00:49
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Eddie

Thanks for your reply  I must be be the only modeller who' s never built a spitrfire/ I wi;; look at your site tomorrowlll 
Serious laptop problems
Danny Fenton30/05/2009 07:10:32
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Sorry Prop, alerting had stopped and i had forgotten this thread. The two electric DB moths (Cirrus and Tiger) are a real joy to fly. They require attention on the sticks, definitely not a yank and bank model.
The two flying slowly together at ten feet down the runway is magic. Chris and I have flown them together a few times now.
 
Yes 5 cells A123 would be perfect, Chris and I used 6 cells as all our packs are in 6 cell format. but 5 would be better, you could turn a larger slower prop.
 
Enjoy
 
 
Martyn Johnston30/05/2009 22:24:38
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Eddie,
Just me being ignorant again.
Do you have a photo of how the strut retainer is supposed to be attached to the strut?
There's mention of a split pin in the instructions, but I can't picture how that attached to the strut.
When I figure it out I'll post a picture on here.
Danny Fenton31/05/2009 08:21:35
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Hi Martyn, Chris will be on later and will photograph his. But if memory serves me right the struts have a small split pin slid into a hole drilled into the top of the strut. you will have just the loop of the split pin showing. the split pin loop is in line with the wing spar. another split pin is attached to the rib, again inline with the spar.
 
the lower end of the strut has a small piano wire hook that hooks into the split pin glued to the top of the rib in the lower wing, again this is in line with the spar.
 
hook the bottom of the strut to the split pin hoop on the top of the lower wing. At the top of the strut, align the hoops and slide a long thin piece of piano wire with a 90 degree bend at one end through both strut split pin hoops and catching the rib split pin hoops too. You must feed it from front to back, the 90 deg bend stopping it sliding right through.
 
A picture will be much clearer than my explanation. In practice the method works very well, and makes rigging very quick and easy. just don't forget the piano wire rods when you go flying!!
 
Cheers
Danny
Chris Bott - Moderator31/05/2009 20:43:43
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Right - last go at photo posting, if this doesnt work then I'm never posting another. I've been here over an hour. Just got my words and one photo posted into the reply box, when I tried to add a second photo I was told I needed to log in - I already had been - how could I have got the first picture there.....  (sorry, rant over) Mods, this is very annoying.
 
Martyn
Hope the pics show this OK, as Danny says, Bottom wing has an eyelet made of a split pin, just showing. The hole faces accross the wingspan. A hook in the bottom of the strut hooks through this.
 
On the top wing, and the top of the struts, there are also eyelets using split pins. The holes in these face fore and aft. And a piece of piano wire pushes through the lot.


This is how I interpreted the plans and it works well. Just don't loose all the bits.
Cheers
Chris

Danny Fenton31/05/2009 21:57:22
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Thanks Chris, thats what I was trying to say in words.. I was wrong with my description of the eyelet direction on the lower wing though. thanks for setting it straight. It does work very well and is easier than messing with nuts and bolts.
 
Cheers
Danny
Martyn Johnston01/06/2009 09:45:08
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Danny, Chris,
Thanks lots for the suggestions/photos. That's great.
I'd not have guessed at that from reading the instructions; but then I've not finished the wings yet so it's hard to picture what they mean.
The instructions suggest permanently attaching the bottom of the struts. They also suggest an elastic band at the top, presumably to stop the struts from coming off the piano wire bar you made.
Eddie, would you agree with Chris's method or would you suggest anything different?
Chris Bott - Moderator01/06/2009 09:58:49
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Hi Martyn

The Cirrus Moth came second hand and did have the struts fixed to the bottom wing.
This was by having an eyelet in each. 
They could flop down onto the wing for storage and there was the advantage that they wouldn't get lost or forgotten. But I felt they could get damaged or could damage the finnish of the wing. 

Chris
Danny Fenton01/06/2009 17:30:01
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Also because we had to recover the wings, we had to cut the struts off. It was impossible to recover them with the struts attached.
 
Cheers
Danny
Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale01/06/2009 17:30:46
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Hello All,

The hooked wire at the bottom method is used in the 48” range of the models, the permanently interlinked split pins are for the larger models as in the case of this aircraft.

As Chris says, the struts can cause damage to the wings if folded down without protection, however, in today’s world of bubble wrap, it is easy enough to make slip on pockets for the struts.

 There is some nice bubble wrap in the box.

Chris Bott - Moderator01/06/2009 17:54:56
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Hi Eddie

When you get the model second hand looking 50 years old the bubble wrap is long gone

That goes for both of mine.  They are testament however to the longevity of your models.

Just for your reference, mine are both the 60" ish sized ones and the hooked wire method is working very well on both of these. Everything stays in place nicely even if thrown about rather more viloletly than scale!

I don't know if it applies accross the board, but on my Tiger moth the builder set in some nice gentle warps into the wings. However when the struts are in place, these all get pulled out and the whole wing setup becomes symetrical.

They do go well electric

Chris 
Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale02/06/2009 08:15:47
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Hello Chris,

It is very likely that if the model is as old as you say, then the hook method may well have been the earlier way of doing things and then progressing on to interlinked split pins.

The wings should be built flat in the case of most Bi-planes, this is usually due to the upper wing having a slightly greater incidence angle and can be put into a mild stall condition while the lower wing (controlling the ailerons) remains in good air flow to retain full aileron control during landing approaches.

 It is usually only mono-wing aircraft that require twist (washout) built into the wings, this enables the inner area of the wing to be placed into the mild stall condition while at the same time the twist (washout) affords the cleaner airflow over the ailerons to maintain lateral control on landing approaches.

 So if your wings are pulling straight on assembly and working, leave them as they are, they sound as if they are adopting the designed requirements by default.
(They didn't use bubble wrap when yours was made Chris, that was for Martyn).

  Eddie.

Edited By Eddie Stocker on 02/06/2009 08:18:34

Martyn Johnston02/06/2009 09:22:37
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Just out of interest Eddie, when was this kit designed?
Chris Bott - Moderator02/06/2009 09:40:17
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Hi Eddie, yes I think I'm extremely lucky. 
The wings are far from symmetrical before they pull in with the struts. 

With the struts in place I'm left with slight curves . They start as slight washin as they leave the root, becoming slight washout towards the tips. It certainly flies well enough, so I'm leaving well alone.

It would be far better if they were built flat in the first place. Which isn't difficult.

Cheers
Chris 
Eddie Stocker - Formerly, DB Sport and Scale02/06/2009 09:45:03
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Hello Martyn,

Originally the kit was designed around 30-35 years ago, there has been a few mods since then, mainly when converting to laser cutting where we were then more able to make interlocking built up tailplane frames as standard. Most of the rest of it is as was.

Eddie.

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