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What size engine for the Ballerina

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Richard Walton11/05/2016 00:08:08
36 forum posts
1 photos

Guys,

At long last I'm about to make a start on my Ballerina but being quite new to the scene I need a little device on engine size. I like four stroke Saito's and thinking of using either a 30 or 40 size one. I don't want an absolute rocket ship model but I do want something that'll pull nicely. What do you suggest please.

Also, if I install the engine upside down in the model, the breather tube in the sump will be upside down within the wooden nose. My Saito 56 drips oil from this port in use but if the engine is upside down how will the oil escape from the enigine? Will this cause a problem?

Thanks in advance?

Darrell Woodward11/05/2016 05:45:20
94 forum posts
1 photos

Hi Richard,

After a quick read up on the build threads I see .35 two stroke / .40 four strokes mentioned.

Don't worry about a four stroke being up-side down, it will still blow oil out the crankcase breather - figure out where you'd like it to drip from, exit the pipe from there and you'll be able to get your after run oil shot in there easy too. wink

There was only one mass produced model engine that had a proper 'wet sump' - **LINK**

Notice the really scary price tag!

Good luck with your build.

Craig Thomas11/05/2016 06:24:11
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478 forum posts
161 photos

Hi Richards. I've built a Ballerina this year. What a great little plane. 👍 I've fitted a Saito 56 in mine. The main reason I went for the .56 instead of a smaller one is mainly due to price, the bigger one was cheaper Mine is also inverted and have experienced no issues what so ever first Saito I've had and am very impressed

saito131134.jpg

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Percy Verance11/05/2016 06:56:39
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

Hi Richard

I'd consider fitting at least a .40 four stroke, because the .30 just won't have the power and torque for comfortable flight. Personally, I'd go a little larger again, as Craig suggests, and fit something like a .52fs/.56fsl give a comfortable reserve of power and will make a difference on the days when the grass is wet during take off, or when it's a bit breezy.

Four strokes seem happier when mounted inverted than do some two strokes. The engine doesn't *know* which way up it is, so just go for it.

Richard Walton11/05/2016 08:36:05
36 forum posts
1 photos

Thanks for the replies guys.

I think I'll go for the 56 Saito then. I already have one in my Kadett Mk2 and love it. It sounds really nice in the air and I've not heard anyone make a bad comment about them.

Cheers for now.

Peter Miller11/05/2016 08:38:46
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

Hi Richard.

I use the OS 40 Surpass and am happy with mine but you can go for a larger four stroke if you want.

I have my engine mounted sideways but my current design has its OS 52 Surpass mounted inverted. No problem. That model is a little bigger and heavier than Ballerina but the larger engine doesn't make it much faster.

supar marauder flt 006mod.jpg

To be honest I never fit a breather tube to mine by just let it dump straight ot. after all you will get fuel dribbles from the carb anyway.

Richard Walton11/05/2016 11:20:58
36 forum posts
1 photos

Peter,

Thanks for the reply, it has given me food for thought. 40 or 56 Saito? Hmmm.... I think I'll see what prices I can get on each and decide then.

Thanks.

Peter Miller11/05/2016 11:55:37
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

I am not sure how the Saito 40 compapres with the OS 40 Surpass. Based on one model thatI have sen flying with such an engine I have a feeling that the O.Sis a little more powerful but this is just a feeling and I am ready to be corrected.

Percy Verance11/05/2016 14:16:37
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

I wouldn't be too sure there Peter. The Saitos I regularly use ( .62, an .82 and a 1.15 ) all seem very powerful for their capacities.

I have an engineer friend whom knows and understands engines to a much greater degree than myself, and he rates Saitos very highly. As an aside, he returned to the hobby several years back after a 14 year break, and felt moved enough to comment on the disappointing performance of OS engines compared to 20 odd years previously........

Peter Miller11/05/2016 14:53:52
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

Nothing wrong with Saitos. I had one of the first ever 30s in the country back in the 70s, also had several others. I was comparing a 40 a friend had ina light weight vintage model comepared with my onw .40s.

OSmake so many variations on two strokes that some are awesome and some I won't even consider but again, that is a personal opinion.

Percy Verance11/05/2016 16:11:36
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

OS quality is generally perceived as being excellent Peter, but they don't always get it bang on. They have had some notable clangers over the years. Witness the supercharged 1.20 of 20 odd years ago, and the .70 Ultimate, the pumped four stroke nobody wanted. Oh, and there was the peeling liner escapade. That said, there some engine manufacturers out there who I'm sure would love to sell 50% of the engines OS do.......

I have noticed just recently though, the range has been pared somewhat. A sign of things to come?

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 11/05/2016 16:15:07

Peter Miller11/05/2016 18:24:14
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

There is/was a 50 size heli engine that blows pistons and I am not impressed with teh LA range.

Percy Verance12/05/2016 14:00:22
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

You and quite a number of others too it seems Peter.

I had a few doubts regarding the LA range once they'd hit the market and a few user opinions began to filter through.

I went and bought a couple of FP's before they all went. I still have them boxed and unrun,  waiting to be used one day......

Edited By Percy Verance on 12/05/2016 14:01:01

ASH.12/05/2016 14:26:28
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292 forum posts
Richard, the engine I would go for is the Saito 62.. it's very light and powerful. It's versatility means it can be put to good use in future models.

Ash
Peter Miller12/05/2016 18:11:02
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

Sorry but a 62 is grossly over powering the model. That is 50% larger than the model is designed for. IT will totally destroy the characteristics of the model.

ASH.12/05/2016 18:57:14
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292 forum posts
Okay.. Peter, why not just limit the carb opening mechanically or on the radio if one feels they couldn't practise self-control. I know I would have to.
Peter Miller12/05/2016 19:55:53
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

Well yes. In that case do it that way and why not fit a 180. then add a few ounces of lead in the tail! Then you can fly the whole flight in tick over.

Or, better still, use an engine in the range the model is designed for

Edited By Peter Miller on 12/05/2016 19:56:26

ASH.12/05/2016 20:40:33
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292 forum posts

That's true.. I don't believe in overpowering models. No point in that when fuel consumption and weight have to be taken into consideration. But the 62 is lighter and possibly better value for money. Or there's the 72 smiley

Peter Miller12/05/2016 21:33:14
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10013 forum posts
1177 photos
10 articles

You know I think I undestand you.

When I was researching my Locamp powered by the Rotec R2800 I found a lot of motorcycles powered by this 2800cc 31" diameter seven cylinder radial.

I can picture you riding up the local main street on such a motor bike but not powered by the Rotec R2800 but instead powered by a Pratt &Whitney Twin Row Wasp..

 

Edited By Peter Miller on 12/05/2016 21:33:46

ASH.12/05/2016 21:48:45
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292 forum posts

smileySorry, you've lost me there Peter.. not up on motorbike or aircraft engines.. only know a little about small model engines.

You are the designer.. and characteristics are important. So respect.

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