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Retro fitting flaps to a Super 60

Is there an easy way?

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Cliff 195920/05/2016 21:29:59
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Hi,

I have inherited an old Super 60 which I've electrified, she flies very well but as I've added a camera and a parachute bay along with the large battery she comes in a little to quickly when landing.

My plan is to add inboard flaps to slow things down a little, the trailing edge is built up and perhaps only 35mm deep so not really big enough to cut flaps into. I don't want to strip off the nice old-looking nylon and build up some flaps and try to match the covering which would be almost impossible.

I was wondering if adding flaps to the underside of the wing made from, say 1/16" ply to the depth of the out-board ailerons, about 2", would work.

Of course they would cause a bit of turbulence when flat against the wing because they wouldn't be flush but not enough to worry about on this old bus?

Any comments or ideas?

Peter Miller20/05/2016 21:34:29
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Yes, they would work as split flaps. I once did similar flaps on a camera plane and actually had them hinged at about the main spar. They worked well. Aplly them at full power and ti will loop.

You would be better with them near the ttailing edge but they would be easier to hinge from the main spar.

Cliff 195920/05/2016 21:40:11
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Hi Peter,

Thanks for that idea, I was thinking of hinging them using some sort of iron-on covering but hinging from the main spar is something I didn't even consider, how big were they?

I could also hinge them on the trailing edge but that would like untidy from above, how did they affect the trim hinging so far forward and how effective where they in that position?

Tom Sharp 220/05/2016 21:45:59
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Build a second wing attached to the bottom of the fuselage, ending up with a slow flying biplane.

Cliff 195920/05/2016 23:35:33
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Another idea is to hinge the flaps like that on a Stuka, either behind and below the wing or simply under the wing with a gap.

Peter Miller21/05/2016 08:39:04
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I can't remember any trim change, ot could not have been serious. They did slow the model down and provide more lift. IT was some 30 odd years ago!!

I suspect that being under the centre of lift they would not change the trim much a tall.

Cliff 195922/05/2016 17:29:44
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242 forum posts
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super 60 wing flaps 80 degree.jpgsuper 60 wing flaps 30 degree.jpgsuper 60 wing flaps.jpg

super 60 wing flaps up.jpg

super 60 wing flaps 30 degree.jpg

Ok, this is what I've done, it's going to be fun testing it out.

Cliff 195923/05/2016 23:53:40
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242 forum posts
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Tried it out this evening, 30% flaps slows it nicely but 80% and it virtually hovvers! The model displays no sign of tip stalling. Flying doesn't seem to have been impaired at all with the flaps in this position beneath the wing.

Tom Sharp 224/05/2016 06:42:22
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All we want now is too see your super stable photos

Mike Etheridge 124/05/2016 10:47:37
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Amazing, my next project is to re-build some Super 60 wings for a plane I bought on E-bay a few years ago. I completed the re-build of the fuselage and flew the plane with my 54 year old Junior 60 wings. I am just finishing off the re-covering of the Junior 60 fuselage and have added an elevator which it did not have before, just throttle and rudder.

I would be interested to know where you obtained the hinges for the flaps ?

super 60 28-01-2011 003.jpg

Cliff 195924/05/2016 15:23:21
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Hi Mike,

The hinges are just as pictured simply glued to little balsa blocks (angled otherwise the hinges don't close enough to allow the flap to go parallel to the wing), if you're making a wing I would build the flaps into the structure, inboard of the ailerons, you could still use the same hinges or use the covering in the normal way. Are you adding ailerons?

hinges.jpg

Cliff 195924/05/2016 18:53:33
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242 forum posts
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super 60.jpg

Here's a picture of the whole plane, I painted the design as a homage to the vintage planes of yesteryear.

Peter Miller24/05/2016 20:46:15
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Nice!

Stuart Marsden24/05/2016 21:45:07
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I have been looking for a good Super Sixty with aileron wing and have no time to build one . Is there anyone out there with one to sell, I live in Cambridgeshire. Please Reply to stuartmarsden0@gmail.com

Peter Christy24/05/2016 23:19:36
1517 forum posts

Please forgive me if this post sounds in anyway critical - it isn't intended to be, believe me! I'm just astounded at the number of people fitting ailerons and flaps to Super 60s!

Back in the late 60s, I had a Super 60, passed on to me by a friend who emigrated to Australia. He flew it with a valve single channel receiver, a Fred Rising escapement and a Frog 500 for power (later replace by an ED Racer, which provided much more ooommph, despite being half the size)!

When I inherited it, I fitted it with 6-channel reed equipment and a Merco 35. The reed gear alone must have weighed a couple of pounds, yet despite this, in any sort of breeze, it could be flown backwards! To achieve any penetration required plenty of down elevator! It was a real floater - flaps would have brought it to a dead halt!

I cannot comprehend what anyone could have done to this venerable design for it to require either flaps or ailerons! Mine was a sprightly performer and could be rolled briskly with a slightly enlarged rudder!

If you really want a similar model with ailerons, a much better choice would be the Frog Jackdaw, a wonderful model, now largely forgotten - except to those in the know! It was designed with optional ailerons from the outset and handled much better than any modified Super 60. The Super 60 was designed essentially as a free flight model with occasional radio interference - about the best that could be managed at the time! The Jackdaw was designed to be controlled whilst still being a stable platform.

Don't get me wrong! I love the Super 60! In fact I've still got two half-size versions - a sort of Super 30! One has single-channel (yes, even the rubber driven escapement!), and the other two channel (rudder an elevator) with slightly reduce dihedral. Both are excellent flyers, and the youngest of the pair is now some 30 years old!

But if I was going to build a trainer type model with ailerons and flaps, it wouldn't be a Super 60. It would be a Frog Jackdaw. As the yokel said to the tourist, who was asking for directions, "If I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from 'ere!"

wink

Please read this in the spirit it was intended!

--

Pete

Cliff 195924/05/2016 23:48:43
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242 forum posts
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Hi Peter,

Read in the spirit it was intended ... I take on board all of your points of course, I acquired the model with ailerons already fitted, the flaps are just a bit of fun really (I like tinkering).

I've added a little hatch on the bottom which is remotely controlled for letting a parachute go as well as a camera mount between the undercarriage legs (I like tinkering).

I've just had a look at the Jackdaw, but like a streamlined Super 60, I see where you're coming from.

See you on the field.

Mike Etheridge 125/05/2016 10:56:22
1509 forum posts
408 photos

My Super 60 had aileron wings when I acquired it from E-bay. The plane was very badly put together and I doubt whether it had actually flown. Initially I stripped off all the nylon covering from the plane and after doing so discovered the structural problems particularly with the wing. I have been in two minds as to whether I should build a new wing or re-build the old. Some modellers have suggested the Super 60 is not good with no dihedral on the wings and ailerons fitted. Hence my experiment with the Junior 60 wings and slight modification to the Super 60 wing platform to accommodate them. My current thought is that if I built the aileron wings with slight dihedral they might work on the Junior 60 ?

Air brakes are an interesting experiment I think but without some modification to the old wings I could not easily add them in line with the existing strip ailerons ? .

028.jpg

junior 60 1962-3r.jpg

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 25/05/2016 11:01:01

Dave Bran25/05/2016 12:05:44
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1898 forum posts
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IMO, anyone who needs flaps on a Super 60, regardless of its weight, has not yet learned to fly.

devil

Cliff 195925/05/2016 12:26:48
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242 forum posts
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Dave, I hope my next passenger doesn't see your comment next time I fly my full-size laugh

Peter Miller25/05/2016 12:35:23
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10067 forum posts
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Posted by Dave Bran on 25/05/2016 12:05:44:

IMO, anyone who needs flaps on a Super 60, regardless of its weight, has not yet learned to fly.

devil

From what I read Cliff has added quite a ot of weight and I know from my days doing aerial photography that when doing aerial photography you do want to slow down quite a lot.

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