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Balsa list for Chapter One

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Liam Ryan03/07/2016 23:35:03
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Hi All,

I've just decided to return to the hobby after a long time and I'm going to give building the Chapter One a shot. Does anyone have a list of the type and quantity of wood needed to complete the kit?

I realize you can buy CNC kits for the plane but I would actually prefer to do the whole thing myself, the problem is I don't have a local source of balsa wood so I'll need to get it all shipped to Ireland.

Cheers,

Liam

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator04/07/2016 12:46:25
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I'll have a look when I get home Liam....wink 2

Are you going to build the IC or Lekky version?

Percy Verance04/07/2016 14:45:59
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Hi again Liam

I find it hard to believe you can't get balsawood in Ireland? Quite a few years ago I bought quite a bit of stuff from W.J. Owens in Co. Wicklow. Despite being in North West England, the postal service was very prompt. Speaking to Mr. Owens on the phone I got the impression the shop was well stocked, so perhaps he has balsa?

But as already suggested, Balsamart (a.k.a. Blackburn Models), SLEC and Inwood are all good for posted orders.

If you spend a few minutes studying the plan Liam, it'll become clearer as to how much wood of a particular size you'll need. Just make a few notes and you'll be fine. Any wood left over goes into the next model....

I tend to buy a whole stack at once. It usually does me for 3 or 4 (or more) models. You won't see much strip wood in the box because I tend to cut my own from sheet. It's much cheaper that way.......

Here......nice-one-balsa-cabin.....jpg

And it's easy if you have one of these...... wink

proxxon-saw.jpg

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 04/07/2016 15:16:26

Liam Ryan04/07/2016 15:09:34
82 forum posts
74 photos

Thanks for the help again

Steve I'm leaning towards the electric since I have a lot of robot bits lying around that I can hopefully re-purpose to save some money on batteries and the like and I'm curious to see how far they've come along. I'll take a stab at the aileron wing too I think, don't know if that increases the amount of wood required?

Percy thanks for your help as well, I appreciate your detailed reply. Apologies if there was any confusion I meant I don't have a local source of balsa wood, It's a 6 hour round-trip to the nearest hobby or art store I could find with a good selection. Since I'll be ordering it to be delivered I wanted to try and get it all in one shipment to save on postage. I don't have experience with the types of balsa and ply I wouldn't really trust any estimates from the plan so I'm stuck between not wanting to order too much since I don't know if I'll enjoy the build and see it through and not wanting too little considering I'll probably have a lot of miscuts and mistakes.

Don Fry04/07/2016 15:37:01
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Liam, I'd get a bit extra, Percy is right, and there is nothing worse that just being a small bit short after a miscut, and if you are tight on quantity, up goes the stress levels, up goes the mistake rate, and down goes the build quality and enjoyment.

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator04/07/2016 16:47:49
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As the lads say you can never have too much balsa wood!!! Remember to allow for mistakes too....having to order a single sheet of 1/16th balsa cos you messed up your last one is very frustrating in lost time & postal costs....

BTW I'm intrigued by the words "robot bits"....what are these?

For an electric drive train you will need a battery, an ESC (electronic speed controller) a motor, a prop driver & a prop....each components interacts with each other & is dependant on each other so it should generally be viewed as a whole rather than a series of parts...weight is the enemy of flight so I'm worried your "robot bits" might be too heavy for a flying model....

Certainly if they include brushed motors &/or NiCds or NiMH batteries then leave them in the Robot bits drawer....electric flight has moved way, way past these.

Suggest you have a look at the electric flight section & try & get your head around how it works/fits together etc. & some of the terminology & maths used.....

Dare I suggest another thread to cover the powertrain....? You'll get more advise that way....wink 2

Liam Ryan04/07/2016 17:42:25
82 forum posts
74 photos

Thanks Steve I'll have a read and come back to it smiley

The robot bits are from my college FYP, I was doing computer science and made an AI robot that would teach itself to avoid obstacles. They are indeed NiMH packs plus the usual assortment of wiring, sensors, arduinos and a few raspberry pis. I'll probably get around to putting some sensors and a camera into a plane a little further down the line but I'll close the drawer and step away for now

Here's a picture of the bot since you were interested - The "eyes" are an ultrasonic sensor, the "mouth" is an IR rangefinder and the faceplate is mounted on a servo for panning. You can see a raspberry pi on the left and an arduino on the right behind the faceplate. The little bulbs near the wheels are home-made ir bump sensors that will trigger if something comes within 4cm or so. Terrible photo but it's all I had to hand

arpibot.jpg

MattyB04/07/2016 18:38:22
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Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 04/07/2016 16:47:49:

Suggest you have a look at the electric flight section & try & get your head around how it works/fits together etc. & some of the terminology & maths used.....

Dare I suggest another thread to cover the powertrain....? You'll get more advise that way....wink 2

I don't think there is any real need in this instance - from memory the designer has recommended a solid powertrain, and if you like you can buy the whole lot from 4-Max in one go. In time the OP will learn how the different parts work together and how to design a suitable powertrain, but for now using a tried and trusted setup is a lot easier, quicker and less daunting.

Alternatively exactly the same bits can of course be sourced cheaper from you know where... wink 2

Edited By MattyB on 04/07/2016 18:41:16

Liam Ryan04/07/2016 19:25:29
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Bookmarked thanks, I should probably open a new thread since there's so much involved in this stuff but I'll take a few days to do my reading first

Tom Sharp 204/07/2016 19:40:51
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Years ago, when NW located Woodvale Rally was at it's peak, hundreds of Irish modelers used to come over on the ferry to buy their modelling requirements. So suppliers in Ireland must be pretty remote.

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator04/07/2016 20:00:50
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Well if you can design some AI into the Chapter One to help it avoid that big green obstacle at the bottom I suspect many people will beat a path to your door...teeth 2

Matty B has a better memory than me...I'd forgotten that 4 Max offer a set up for the Chapter One. Very close to my own in fact although my motor has a slightly higher kv figure at 1250.....I suspect that Liam likes fiddle though Mat...I don't think he'd be satisfied with fitting something that "just works" without fully understanding it....wink 2

To the balsa list then....a few minutes with a cup of tea & ruler & I've come up with this:-

3/16 x 4 x 36 2 off for the fuselage, 1 off for the tailplane & fin & another for the formers & top & rear cross sheeting.

1/8 x 4 x 36 1 off for the ribs

1/16 x 4 x 36 4 off for the wing sheeting & cap strips

1 sq ft of 3/16 birch ply for F1 & the dihedral braces (the plan says 1/16 ply for this but since you have the 3/16 you might as well use this...more strength & only a small weight penalty)

4mm spruce spars 6 off...3 per wing. you might struggle to get 4mm I used 1/8" which is 3.2mm & cut the holes in the ribs a bit smaller to match

Wing tips you can laminate from scrap 3/16.

I would say that's the absolute minimum...you might like to get more to cover mistakes etc.

The other chaps have pointed you at some good sources of wood. Balsa Cabin is another good source. Ask for soft balsa as this will be much lighter, easier to work & plenty strong enough. With balsa you find two sheets the same size with one as light as a very light thing & the other more suitable for use as a cricket bat

You will also need (deep breath)

hinges, control horns, clevises, wheels, dural sheet for the Under carriage, snakes or pushrods, some 6mm dowel for the wing bands, some covering material. Then some tools like a knife, saw, sandpaper.....It's no wonder ARTFs are so popular is it?

Plus of course the radio/servos electric motor, spinner, prop, ESC, battery, charger etc. but we can come on to that later. Not too late however as it will be handy to have these items to hand as son as possible during the build.

So crack on with your reading....ask lots of questions & prepare your credit card for the forthcoming assault...teeth 2

Liam Ryan04/07/2016 20:33:03
82 forum posts
74 photos

Thanks again Steve, I really appreciate your help and time on this! Probably a silly question but for the spruce spars would they be 1/8x1/8x36?

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator04/07/2016 20:50:55
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No such thing as a silly question...yes 1/8 x 1/8 is 1/8 square.....thumbs up

Percy Verance04/07/2016 21:14:55
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

Hi again Liam

Don't overlook the fact that not only do you need to order the correct sizes and thicknesses of balsa Liam, you also need to try to get the right grade of wood for the particular part of the airframe it's going to be! As an example, the wing spars obviously need to be of a harder/stiffer grade, whereas the wood for the tailplane could well be of a softer and lighter grade to save weight. An ounce of excess weight at the rear of the fuselage will need three or four ounces at the front to get the model to balance correctly when complete Liam. Excess weight is the model builder's worst enemy Liam.

Most balsa retailers tend to sell their wood in three grades, soft, medium and hard. Some model plans do make reference to which particular grade is required, but some don't. From Experience, Blackburn Models seem good at selecting the grades asked for.

Keep asking those questions Liam........

Edited By Percy Verance on 04/07/2016 21:19:26

Tom Sharp 205/07/2016 00:57:09
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Years ago when balsa modelling was more prevalent modellers used to go round the balsa suppliers equipped with a set of scales. And model shops used to ring up valued customers and let them know when new balsa stocks had arrived. Go a couple of days later and you would be faced with very hard heavy sheets or very light stock that crumbled when touched.

Phil 905/07/2016 06:55:36
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don't worry about wood grades just buy medium grade for everything unless stated on the plan. the wing spar would be hard balsa or most likely some type of hard wood. the model is a lightly wing loaded trainer and if you stick to the plan an ounce here or there wont make much difference. Just try and build as straight and accurately as you can and get someone who can already fly to maiden it for you.

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator05/07/2016 08:16:28
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Nigel Hawes, the designer of the Chapter One is a great believer in using thicker but softer wood in his designs. 3/16" balsa sides are quite thick for a model of this size but using soft light wood results in a strong light structure. Harder wood tends to crack & splinter following an impact....softer wood is more flexible & resilient.

Tom..I AM one of those people who takes his scales to the shop...wink 2 Blackburn Models is my LMS & weighing each sheet gives a good idea not only to the grade but also makes for consistency in wood selection. This can be important in choosing wood for fuselage sides as a mismatch in wood can lead to a banana shaped fuselage when pulling the sides together.

Spars on the Chapter One are spruce.....as far as I know there is only one grade of spruce available...hard...smile d

We haven't talked about glues yet either....again a very personal choice. Many use cyanoacrylates (Super Glues) but I find these tend to make for a slightly brittle joint. My own personal choice is good old PVA or white wood glue. Although it takes a while to set this gives you plenty of working time & makes for a good, slightly flexible joint. PVA also has good joint filling characteristics & whilst this is obviously of little use to a skilled & experienced builder like myself (cough, cough...ahem smile p) it might well prove useful to someone just starting out.... thumbs up

Percy Verance05/07/2016 14:47:27
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I prefer Aliphatic myself Steve. It sands much better than does PVA/ normal white glue. Aliphatic is also said to produce joint strength well in excess of PVA made joints. Not that I've tested it personally mind. I just like Aliphatic glue for the fact it dries faster and sands better. And I'm with you re: cyano. Brittle joints.

Liam Ryan07/07/2016 13:46:29
82 forum posts
74 photos
Ordered the balsa (Balsa Cabin were about 30% cheaper when postage was factored in so great recommendation Steve) and the Chapter One issue of RCM&E. Now we play the waiting game

Percy what would I ask for in a store to get some aliphatic to try out? I suspect asking for it by compound would be the equivalent of walking into a store asking for polyvinyl acetate?
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator07/07/2016 19:31:37
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Oooo Liam....you've gone & done it now...wink 2

Aliphatic is what you'll need to ask for......probably from a model shop. Many options for PVA...personally I use Evostik Resin W....

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