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Middle Phase 2

Kit Build with Aileron Wings

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Wihtgar28/10/2018 08:47:46
59 forum posts

Seriously though, many thanks again Jonathan for a well executed build blog which will give me lots of help for my build (and flying).

Nig

Jonathan M29/10/2018 17:57:50
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One more small but important thing:

I recently noticed the fuselage sides bulging a bit under the hatch, so unbolted the wings and found the inside structures (the servo bearers, the formers and the bridging-pieces holding the wing-bolt captive nuts) had all separated from one side of the fuselage - probably the result of an earlier particularly poor (cartwheel?) arrival and/or several heavy landings.

This makes me wonder (a) whether the standard epoxied butt-joints weren't strong enough, or (b) whether the 5mm nylon wing-bolts are oversized for the job? I've glued everything back in place using thin CA hopefully for thorough wicking and am carrying on flying as is.

A hard strike on the ground is going to need the energy released somehow... I wonder whether it would have been more sensible to fit 4mm bolts?

PatMc29/10/2018 20:01:44
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Epoxy isn't a very good wood glue, it doesn't penetrate into the wood to any degree. Fast setting epoxy is least effective on wood. If I have to use epoxy for any wood joints I drill a series of small holes, if it's practical, then mix glass micro fibres with the epoxy - 24 hour setting for preference.

Paul A30/10/2018 08:25:08
3 forum posts

The box is off the wardrobe! I just glued the two halves of the fuselage together last night so I'm now at note 9. So far so good.

Jonathan M30/10/2018 08:31:25
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Which version are you doing Paul - the dihedral wing for RE only or the straight wing aileron one?

Jonathan M30/10/2018 08:37:10
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Posted by PatMc on 29/10/2018 20:01:44:

Epoxy isn't a very good wood glue, it doesn't penetrate into the wood to any degree. Fast setting epoxy is least effective on wood. If I have to use epoxy for any wood joints I drill a series of small holes, if it's practical, then mix glass micro fibres with the epoxy - 24 hour setting for preference.

That makes sense Pat - epoxy needs to be made 'mechanical' to be secure. One thing that perhaps doesn't help is that the (instructions say) to sand the ply parts to rid them of the release-agent used in the factory cutting. If this wasn't done thoroughly enough, then grip would be poorer.

What glue, by the way, would you typically use for this type of former-to-sides joinery? Aliphatic, PVA or CA?

PatMc30/10/2018 21:41:39
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Posted by Jonathan M on 30/10/2018 08:37:10:

What glue, by the way, would you typically use for this type of former-to-sides joinery? Aliphatic, PVA or CA?

If building from new, either PVA or aliphatic, whichever was to hand.
For a repair where epoxy has already been used, slow setting epoxy if it could be persuaded to run into the space but if not then CA. Slow set epoxy can be made runnier by playing a hair dryer on it.

The reason I prefer slow set epoxy is that it stays hard whereas fast set often becomes soft & rubbery after a while.

PatMc30/10/2018 22:52:39
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Posted by Jonathan M on 27/10/2018 17:43:16:

PS The future...? Thinking about a Phase 6 with four wing servos (semi or symmetrical wing section?) or going down the mouldie route with a 2m Typhoon? The alternative is an out-and-out aerobatic with symmetrical section, but I imagine I'd always need serious wind to keep such a creature aloft?

I had a Phase 6 with symmetrical wing section. It was designed for serious aerobatic comp flying requiring precise control with equal upright & inverted performance rather than being thrown around "hot - dog" style. For instance I found that with the cg pretty well where specified it could rolled &/or held there with no elevator correction. But I also found it to be a bit stodgy, I much prefered my Sean Bannister designed Seychelle which had a snappier performance & could be flown in lighter winds. I don't think the kit version of the Seychelle is available now though the plan can be had from Sarik.

I know plenty of people will disagree with my opinion of the P6 but I think most of them prefer the semi-symmetrical wing version, which I must admit I've never flown.

Jonathan M31/10/2018 09:48:38
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607 forum posts
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Cheers for replies Pat - interesting to hear about your experience with Phase 6 symmetrical.

In the end, someone recommended a Quark 2M short kit from Island Models in Ireland **LINK** which looks very close to what I'm after... so I ordered one!

It will be reasonably light (about 1.4kg) but looks plenty strong enough, a fairly fast-building modern laser-cut kit with locating tabs (stronger than old-school butt-joints), and a built-up mostly sheeted wing with a very close to symmetrical section.

I'll probably do a build-blog for the Quark once I start building later this year - here's what Danny Chapman's (of Picasim fame) looks like in action:

 
Jon

Edited By Jonathan M on 31/10/2018 09:52:26

Paul A31/10/2018 10:52:46
3 forum posts
Posted by Jonathan M on 30/10/2018 08:31:25:

Which version are you doing Paul - the dihedral wing for RE only or the straight wing aileron one?

Yep, I'm making the RE only version. I had an ARTF glider years ago which was a nightmare to control. A guy on top of Ilkley Moor advised me to get a middle phase kit as a 'good solid trainer', which I did.

Re your bulging fuse sides, just a thought - I noticed during a dry assembly of the front, that pulling the nose in made the sides want to open up around former 7, with former 8 at the fulcrum. As a result, I decided to shave about 1mm of either side of former 8 to make it slightly narrower and lessen the pressure on the sides further back. Still ran out of bottom sheeting though, which is today's job to source some more.

Jonathan M31/10/2018 12:07:09
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607 forum posts
267 photos

Paul

Get yourself the free version of Picasim for your phone or better the free or almost free Windows version for your PC so you can connect your TX with a dongle. This trained my brain and my fingers superbly for learning to slope soar, first with the RE trainer then a choice of aileron models and different sceneries.

**LINK**

I also flew my little RE Elf DLG on gentle slopes in light winds, then the foam Libelle with ailerons (rubbish as a DLG - and I really hate foam things - but good on the slope in moderate conditions).

So, by the time I came round to actually building my Middle Phase, I had no need for the beginner's dihedral wing that came with the kit and purchased the aileron wings separately from Chris Foss. Down the line, once you're used to flying the MP with just rudder and elevator, you could always upgrade yours similarly.

In the meantime, it would probably be sensible to build the fuselage according to spec with dowels and wing-bands - to save the grief on choppy landings!

Jon

Alan H31/10/2018 12:17:43
71 forum posts
2 photos

I have Picasim on my PC and find the flight dynamics to be very realistic. Much better IMHO than Phoenix. A superb sim for slope soaring, I was sufficiently impressed to make a donation.

Jonathan M14/01/2019 19:00:52
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607 forum posts
267 photos

Just a note to add to anyone referring to this build-thread for their own MP:

After another hard landing (negligent operator misjudged pesky rotor behind landing area) the servo-bearers and cross-bearers for the wing-nuts came away again from the fuselage sides.

This time I decided to mechanically fix all of them in place either side using 3x20 countersunk screws (first drilled pilot holes and countersunk just below the surface of the ply sides), then roughened up all adjacent internal surfaces and gave everything a good dose of slow-setting epoxy with micro-balloons. My aim is that - should the worst happen- the nylon wing-bolts should simply shear as designed, rather than fuselage innards come away yet again!

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After this photo was taken, the holes were patched (un-filled in case I ever need to take the thing apart) with little squares of black covering film. Looks like new again!

Sussex Pete16/04/2019 09:49:19
2 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Jonathan M on 08/01/2018 19:23:06:

Today...

Finalised the fit of the servos in the wing-pockets (excess aileron leads coiled and taped to servo side where there's a bit of room) and drilled 1.5mm diam pilot holes.

Trimmed the pocket surrounds for an exact fit, and down slightly so that the 2mm thick plastic covers sit as flush as possible.

Selected the two denser strips of the four lengths of supplied stock for the leading-edges (the remaining two will face the trailing-edges).

And glued up using PVA and masking-tape (used lower-tack tape than the blue 3M stuff as I don't want to risk tearing up fibres from the veneer when I peel it off).

I'm a late-comer to the thread, about to start my own MP2 build, and I want to thank you immediately for solving the aileron servo mount - and cable routing - for me! I've picked up loads of other good ideas from your build, too - never too much detail 8)

Sussex Pete16/04/2019 11:07:07
2 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Jonathan M on 19/03/2018 20:26:00:

Next up was fitting the rudder gubbins. The horn flange and back-plate needed trimming away (this time at matching oblique angles, but pictures only show the first rough trim), then had a little manual play with the snake - clearly the odd angle that the snake approaches the rudder is weird, but it seems to work well enough with no distortion or stress on the whole assembly:

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You're not the first to hit a mismatch between a rudder hinge line and a snake direction 8) Here's my solution using a ball-joint clevis on my Kamco Kloudrider (and apologies for the sideways pic - can't seem to rotate it here!)

20190416_102302.jpg

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