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Best glue??

Best glue for bulkhead

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Eddy Barker04/04/2017 19:29:38
44 forum posts
4 photos
Hy all. Whats the best glue for a ply bulkhead (to mount an outrunner), to a plastic fuz. Its a Protech Virage fusalage blow moulded I think? Any help apreciated. Thankyou.
PatMc04/04/2017 20:20:07
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4199 forum posts
521 photos

I've tried several glues but AFAICS the type of plastic used won't take any glue. Presumably that's why everything fitted to the fuselage is secured with screws.

If you haven't cut away any of the nose I can post some pics of how I mounted outrunners to my Protech Unlimited fuselages.

Dave Wilshere04/04/2017 20:30:27
56 forum posts

Use Hysol 9462 it etches into the surface....

MattyB04/04/2017 21:09:25
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1944 forum posts
30 photos

Stabilit Express works a charm on all plastics and pretty much anything else I've tried it on too. It is pretty expensive though.

Percy Verance04/04/2017 21:22:39
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8108 forum posts
155 photos

I'd second Stabilit Express. I used it on a Robbe Plura fuselage many moons ago. In fact Robbe advised it's use exclusively, as no other known glue would adhere to Plura due to it's slightly waxy feel.

Eddy Barker04/04/2017 21:49:59
44 forum posts
4 photos
Patmac. I have seen your unlimited but not a close up of the mount. But it would be good to have a nose please. I havnt touched it yet!
Just googling Stabilt express.
OZ e flyer05/04/2017 02:51:02
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142 forum posts
27 photos

Here's a post about glue from the Phoenix 2000 thread. Dry informative and hopefully will help.

Hello to all,

I’m not a glider addict (yet), but I’m distributing some FPV gear (FPVRaptor, Raptor V2 & Ranger EX) from Volantex in Belgium and as you very probably know, the Phoenix 2K is manufactured by Volantex (formerly Lanyu Hobby).

Maybe the following info could be of help not only for repairs (would never wish that to anyone) but also to fix whatever to the inside of the fuselage of the Volantex blow molded fuselages.

Concerning the Raptor/Ranger & Phoenix fuselages, they are made of PP (a polypropylene 'mixed' by the boss of Volantex himself) and NOT of PE (polyethylene). It seems that the best solution - imho - for repairs or gluing 'something' to it, is the use of Loctite® Plastics Bonding System (Henkel Group brand / item #681925).

Loctite Plastic Bonding


It's a two-part cyanoacrylate adhesive (solvent marker & CA tube, but no mixing required) that sets in some seconds, dries clear and cures without clamping.

In fact, the solvent marker comes first & dissolves the plastic surface; then comes the CA which is then able to penetrate and 'weld' the items together. A lot of glues will somehow 'stick' to the polypropylene but will never be properly 'glued' without dissolving first.

It bonds plastics such as Plexiglas®, polycarbonate, polystyrene, PVC, polyethylene, polypropylene and even polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) also known as Teflon®.
It glues those plastics to leather, cork, paper, cardboard, wood, chipboard, fabric, metal, ceramic, rubber, O-rings, ...
It is OK for polystyrene, but I wasn’t sure at all that it was suitable for 'expanded polystyrene' or derivates, as the 'primer' (with Heptane solvent) would probably melt the foam (or EPO).

I've been looking around for an easy way to find the Loctite Plastic Bonding, but it appears that the retail 'blister' packaging is quite hard to find.

So, I contacted Loctite Belgium and did some investigation together with the very helpful local technical service guy: >>> the 'retail packaging' has been discontinued in Europe due to lack of public interest... OMG! ... BUT the products are still around for professionals.

The polyolefin primer is the Loctite SF 770 (better know as the 770) in a 10gr bottle, while the CA is the Loctite 406 in a 20gr plastic bottle. Of course the professional packaging is somewhat bigger, so we can mod/crash a lot more!

Loctite 770 - 406


The other good news is that the Loctite technician confirmed me that the 406 is foam-safe even on 'very common' Styropor...

So, now everybody can make some PET/EPO/PP 'sandwich structure' protections or repairs to our crashing babies... and no, I'm not affiliated in any way to the Loctite nor Henkel Group...

Hope this helped some of you a little.

Happy glueing

Chris
Brussels, Belgium

McG 696905/04/2017 07:42:27
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2539 forum posts
973 photos

Hello to all,

I'm afraid some of the info concerning the Stabilit Express mentioned above is NOT correct. Sorry Matty & Percy. blush

It isn't suitable for PE (polyethylene) or PP (polypropylene) at all. It will 'stick' to it but NOT be 'glued' - or 'welded' - properly.

Here are some specifications for the Stabilit >

Suitable for:
Ceramic, porcelain, glass, concrete,stone, wood and all metals
Polystyrene, acrylic, hard PVC, ABS and SAN plastics
Polycarbonate, glass fiber reinforced plastics (GRP)
Cellulose acetobutyrate, amino and phenolic resins.
Not suitable for:
PE, PP, Teflon ®, soft PVC foams and polyamides.

Most - if not all - blow moulded fuselages are PP which have the feel & looks of those milk cans in the supermarket.
As per the OP, I wouldn't glue a single round ply motor mount to a PP fuselage at least not without modifying it into a 'box' with the sides glued to the fuse as well.
 
And, yes, I wrote the Loctite advice above for the Phoenix/Volantex fuselage some moons ago.
 
Cheers
 
Chris

Edited By McG 6969 on 05/04/2017 07:43:27

OZ e flyer05/04/2017 09:08:27
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142 forum posts
27 photos

Thanks Chris. I just used the copy and paste method. Didn't know how to do a link.

Whilst on the subject of glue, when I was last at my local hobby shop, I noticed he had some aliphatic glue in stock. As I have never used it and I am going to start a new build soon I thought "better get some and stock up". I've read about using it during balsa model construction but my question is Why? Is there a particular reason or circumstance where it is the best choice?

TP

Martin Harris05/04/2017 11:00:47
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8799 forum posts
215 photos

Useful info - I thought it might be handy to get some for a rainy day - only problem is the price! RS Components stock both but at a price - 20g of adhesive is £26.58 and the primer is £19.33 fo 10g so I think I'll wait until I have a desperate need...

McG 696905/04/2017 11:35:11
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2539 forum posts
973 photos

No worries, TP. The most important is to have the info available.

Aliphatic glue - aka ‘carpenter’s glue’ - is a yellow aliphatic resin that is part of the PVA family of glues.

The fast set of an aliphatic resin glue makes it better than a standard PVA type white wood glue, giving not only a faster but also a stronger bond. While allowing an easy clean up of spilled adhesive with a wet cloth before it dries, once dry aliphatic is fully waterproof and very easily sandable.

There is a second type of aliphatic glue, called Super Aliphatic or Superphatic which is a diluted penetrating aliphatic with the same properties as the standard one. This one is water thin and penetrates deep into the fibers - like a CA glue - using its ‘capillarity’ formulation and it bonds in 10 minutes. Typical advantage is that it can be used to glue pinned down wooden bits or even foam or Depron.

Hope this helped a bit

@ Martin > sjeesh... that's 'very' expensive indeed. Both products are at nearly half of your mentioned price here in BE ! Maybe you could have a look at a Loctite stockist in your area.

Cheers

Chris

Martin Harris05/04/2017 11:58:36
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8799 forum posts
215 photos

Ebay prices seem more reasonable (particularly the 406) but you need to be careful that they are still useable as I suspect many of them will be close to their expiry dates - some more scrupulous sellers make a point of mentioning them.

PatMc12/04/2017 23:01:02
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4199 forum posts
521 photos
Posted by Eddy Barker on 04/04/2017 21:49:59:
Patmac. I have seen your unlimited but not a close up of the mount. But it would be good to have a nose please. I havnt touched it yet!
Just googling Stabilt express.

Hi Eddy, here’s some pix of motors mounted in my Protech fuselages.
Sorry for the delay in posting these, life got in the way over this last week or two & I forgot about this thread.

I bought a much used Protech Unlimited with a spare fuselage some time ago. Both fuselages needed to be straightened around the nose area due to some “heavy” landing damage by the previous owner. The nose areas were further weakened by the need to remove the original motor mounts in order to fit outrunners – hence the ply reinforcing pieces.

The photos show three motors all mounted in the same basic way. There's a ply "donut" inside the fuselage to act as a spacer and reinforcement to the plastic "lip" with an epoxy board disc outside taking the fixing screws.
You'll notice there's a plastic strap holding the motor wires down, this is a cut down cable tie that's secured to the nose with a couple of screws through the original motor mount fixing holes.

keda_a36-12l.jpg

First outrunner tried was a Keda A36-12L. It weighs 150g, 37.5mm dia. Although the model flew well when tried with the Unlimited wings and with the 2mtr thermal wings the nose was a little too flexible for comfort. The power was more than necessary & I wanted the motor for something else so ...

igor_01 .jpg

The more battered second fuselage that had been modified for use as a slope soarer (different story) was further roughly modified to take an Emax 2815 920kv motor, 1500mAH 3s lipo & used with the thermal wings.

igor_02.jpg

igor_03.jpg

igor_4.jpg

I took a little more care modifying the other fuselage for the aerobatic wings. Motor is an Emax 2815 1400kv, battery 2200mAH 3s. Although the Emax motors are lighter 125g & slightly shorter than the Keda I think they're a couple of mm greater diameter.

unl_01.jpg

unl_02.jpg

unl_03.jpg

PS one of the glues I tried was Stabilit Express (as mentioned by some above), it was useless on the Protech fuselages. 

Edited By PatMc on 12/04/2017 23:04:30

Rich too14/04/2017 15:55:21
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3020 forum posts
1070 photos

I don't want to hijack this thread but I thought it was the ideal place to post. I will be starting an old CG Ultimate kit build shortly and wondered what the glue of choice would be these days? Or should I just go with the recommended glues? (I haven't checked out the manual yet, but I am guessing white PVA, cyno and epoxy).

I just skimmed through the manual online and it makes no mention of recommended glue types, so not very helpful!

Edited By Rich2 on 14/04/2017 15:56:56

Edited By Rich2 on 14/04/2017 16:13:31

Denis Watkins14/04/2017 16:34:25
3877 forum posts
59 photos

Rich, Aliphatic Resin for balsa/wood joints, as it sands well, and is a modern choice, as well as your choices.

.

Rich too14/04/2017 16:38:16
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3020 forum posts
1070 photos

Thanks Denis, instead of white PVA?

What about the superaphatic instead of cyno for the fuselage for instance? The fuselage is assembled dry.

Denis Watkins14/04/2017 17:07:09
3877 forum posts
59 photos

"Can of worms" Rich, as they say

I remember a flyer at one of the shows built and flew a 120 sized P51 Mustang, built entirely with cyano

Now that must have been expensive, and before and since, builders have done this

Glueing is a science, and each type has its uses, I didn't realise that you were so well informed already

But my main stable is IC, and I never use PVA, seldom Cyano, always use Aliphatic and 2 part epoxy, and not much else, with the odd bit of Resin W on after thoughts, forgotten bits, and stregthening

Rich too14/04/2017 17:53:25
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3020 forum posts
1070 photos

Thanks Denis, tbh I usually go with the manufacturers recommendation. It's only this thread that has made me realise that glue had moved on a bit!

I know cyno is used for wicking into the joints of dry fuselage assemblies for instance. But I can't remember whether thin or medium is used!

I agree, everyone has their preference.

Edited By Rich2 on 14/04/2017 17:53:54

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