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ChrisB28/07/2017 13:27:06
1220 forum posts
34 photos
I'm not sure what was said that prompted the locking and removal of threads but clearly any company that appears to have ceased its operations is a bad thing. Obviously there are rival companies in such a competitive market and one would hope that commercial interests will and have not impeded the functioning of any public forum in any sector. As if commercial interests do play a part then many dozens of topics are off limits and should be removed.
Martyn K28/07/2017 13:57:25
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4980 forum posts
3624 photos

I think you guys do a fantastic job. People tend to forget this is a commercial forum tied to a publishing house and that limits what can be published. MHS have to ensure that posts do not damage the reputation of other suppliers or 3rd parties as they (not the forumites) are responsible for content.

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 28/07/2017 13:57:57

Matt Jones28/07/2017 13:59:07
1186 forum posts
1 photos

Just to add some balance here, despite me being one of the contributors on this morning's thread (and still of the opinion of excessive moderation here) I PM'd Pete this morning and to his credit he replied quickly and it was a very thought out, comprehensive and positive reply thumbs up I have confidence that the topic will be discussed by the management team, here's hoping for a change.

As an aside, I bet a friend this morning's thread would be killed by 9, I was only out by 14 minutes laugh

Martin Dance 128/07/2017 14:07:27
199 forum posts
33 photos

My thread title was intentionally ambiguous as was my opening post. The second post answered the question, so arguably ending the thread.

However many of us, contributors to the forum and the wider model building population are naturally concerned when one of the major players in the business stops trading especially one that appears to hold a large percentage of the plans and part kit asset.

Equally I can see the sensitivity of the owners of this forum who are effectively the other businesses chief rival. Clearly seeming to gloat over a rivals misfortune is not a nice thing, after all, in these uncertain days in publishing you could be next.

I have also been the 'victim' of moderation and put on the naughty step earlier this year when I suggested a post asking about models crashing into houses might just be a malicious posting.

My final point is that what appears to be conspicuous moderation might give rise to a new sport of moderator baiting, it's a blood sport and ultimately there are no winners

og28/07/2017 14:24:48
61 forum posts
5 photos
Posted by Martin Dance 1 on 28/07/2017 14:07:27:

 

I have also been the 'victim' of moderation and put on the naughty step earlier this year when I suggested a post asking about models crashing into houses might just be a malicious posting.

 

thats spooky martin

im still on suspension for airing the same concerns on the same post (different username)

its also why it promted me to post the original post "gagged" as i thought it was too harsh for what i said and perhaps the moderators are too hasty in general

 

p.s. credit to mod pete for his handling of this whole episode

Edited By og on 28/07/2017 14:25:47

Edited By og on 28/07/2017 14:41:49

ChrisB28/07/2017 15:04:55
1220 forum posts
34 photos
Seeing as this is a commercial forum should discussion be allowed around, for example Horizon Hobby, Frsky, various designers and companies as this may impact on the commercial activities of this or any other company be it a positive or negative impact?
will -028/07/2017 15:14:55
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573 forum posts
19 photos

Free speech is OK, but you can eat free peaches

Don Fry28/07/2017 15:31:22
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4049 forum posts
46 photos

I am reluctant to support the establishment, as I still await the socialist revolution.

But quoting Martin Dance,

"My final point is that what appears to be conspicuous moderation might give rise to a new sport of moderator baiting, it's a blood sport and ultimately there are no winners"
 
reminds me of the old sport of bull baiting. I seem to recall it was mostly the bulls did the winning. But it did get Darwins principles moving.
 
Having been a recipient of stern moderator generated pm's, while sometimes I have felt stamped on, at the end of the day accepted I am on the end of a losing argument.
 
And as a final point, this subject must be a potential sore point to our hosts, slagging off the likes of HobbyKing, Horizon is customer feedback. Being seen to be picking over the carcass of a similar company, to our host would be beyond bad taste.
Michael Ramsay-Fraser28/07/2017 15:33:03
221 forum posts

I too PM'd Pete this morning on this very subject.

Lets hope that the proposed discussions amongst the moderators leads to something more than just 'if you want to complain about a moderator it has to be done by a PM' approach.

I appreciate that this forum is a commercial enterprise but, by the same token, it wouldn't be a forum without forum members views and these will, inevitably, vary widely.

As I said in my PM to Pete, I can understand why the original 'Traplet' (damn, said it again!) thread was closed down but not why the 'gagged' one was.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator28/07/2017 22:40:48
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Moderator
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

We would have thought that it was obvious why we do not want discussion and dissection of Traplet’s unfortunate position. True, Traplet and MTM are competitors, but that competition has always been conducted in the spirit of us all being part of the greater aeromodelling community. It is a professional and respectful rivalry.

MTM take no pleasure what so ever in Traplet’s current difficulties and recognises that their possible demise is not a good thing for the hobby.

We believe Traplet are entitled to respectful treatment and left with their dignity in these difficult circumstances. People’s livelihoods are at stake here, and there are potentially complex legal issues involved as well. There is, therefore, a need for considerable sensitivity. We do not feel that uninformed speculation on the “chit-chat pages” of a website owned by their main competitor is consistent with these objectives. And so there will not be discussion of Traplet’s position, at this sensitive time, on this site.

Some have questioned, or challenged, the moderation team’s right to impose this. This view displays a complete misunderstanding of the nature of this forum – such people would do well to read the Code of Conduct and the Terms and Conditions connected to their use of this site. We need to remember that this is not a publicly, or community, owned site. It is owned by a private media company and offered, at no direct cost, as a service to the RC aeromodelling community. Given its ownership of the site legally it is publication of the company and that means the company have a liability for its content. Bearing these facts in mind, not unreasonably, the company reserves to itself full editorial control which it exercises through its appointed moderators.

Generally that editorial control is exercised with a ”light touch” – very, very few topics are not allowed – but there are some and the management have decided that Traplet’s current position is one of those few. This decision follows the experience of the first thread on the topic when, left to post as they wished, too many choose to abuse that position with baseless, ill-informed, speculation.

Now some have accused the moderators of being “heavy handed”. Consider the following: there are over a quarter of million open threads on this forum – how many closed ones are there? Very few. Secondly, over this particular issue, several people have breached the CoC, but how many have been sanctioned? Answer, none. Some have been contacted via PM, in order to explain why certain actions were carried out; but, despite the breaches, no one has been sanctioned. The first thread on this topic was closed – for the reason given above, far too much inappropriate speculation, and that was explained at the time. The second was closed because after a single factual opening post it was only ever going to lead to more speculation. Again this was explained. The third thread was deleted because it was in breach of the CoC – being a public discussion of a moderation decision. The OP was PM’ed – affording him the courtesy of privacy – and it was explained to him why the thread was deleted. This is not “heavy handed”, that perception only arises from a lack of knowledge of the CoC and a misconception as to the nature of this site.

Moderators’ decisions are not up for debate for two reasons. Firstly that way lays anarchy, at least one person will always disagree almost by definition, the moderators’ decision has to be final. Remember, this is model aeroplanes we are discussing, not the future of the country! Moderators only enforce the CoC and T&C’s – which are available for all to see. They don’t make the rules – MTM the site owners do and as we have seen they reserved the right to do so. In short, this not a democracy – if you think it is you are wrong. Contributions, ideas and suggestions are welcome, but in the final analysis all the decisions lay exclusively with MTM. So you are free to PM ideas for change to any Mod – but the rules are not up for debate and challenge. It may seem a hard thing to say – but it is how it is. The forum is very tolerant and we try to be easy-going and relaxed in the enforcement of the rules, only editing, deleting or sanctioning as a last resort. Indeed we sometimes get criticised for defending people’s right to express unpopular views! But the freedom afforded all of us as members is not total, nor is it unqualified. There are limits and the site owners reserve to themselves the right to decide where those limits lie.

We can’t stress how important it is that posters should read the CoC. Examples of its provisions that impact this area are:

“This forum is a publication and as publishers we must reserve the right to remove posts and threads without notice should the need arise. Please be accurate and do not use the forum to spread false information, uninformed assumptions or what you think you've heard - always be factual based on your own experiences and knowledge”

Also,

“Don't assume that you have 'freedom of speech' and so can say anything about anybody or anything.”

And finally:

“You must respect moderator decisions, they're not negotiable. Sometimes we have difficult calls to make and forum moderation isn't a science. Please do not discuss moderator decisions on the forum”

If you cannot accept the terms of the CoC then this forum is not for you.

This closes this issue. If you wish to contribute further – you know the mechanism! PM us.

Posted on behalf of the Moderation Team.

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