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Red Arrows/Patrouille de France

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Dave Bran20/08/2017 16:55:32
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1898 forum posts
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SO, I have just watched both the Reds and the PAF perform fairly closely one after the other over Biggin Hill from my house a distance away where I can not only see virtually ALL the flying both the over field and the reformate out of sight, but can clearly see the overall relationship of the display

OK, lets get the patriotic bit out of the way first, overall the Reds are better. Obviously subjective, but here's my observations, from one who has a Ducted fan PAF livery Alpha Jet but no red Hawk.

Reds, nine ship - PAF eight ship.

PAF do a lot of their display split four/four. Its easier to hold formation as a four.

While the Reds have perfected the close together "whole formation" roll, the PAF do a per ship in formation twinkle roll. Reds looks on the face of it more technically challenging, but PAF is more spectacular to the non-initiated (wife!) and the high roll rate and stop while still in close formation IS neat and tidy.

Others who have seen both might like to pass on their opinions?

Despite doing more four/four than eight moves by a large margin, PAF take longer to reformate after a move and burn a LOT more sky doing so, the advantage of turning a four versus a five or seven seemingly being lost.

How much of this is plane related or lack of familiarity with terrain, or pilots skill level, or in combination, I cannot say, but its there and very evident.

Trevor Crook20/08/2017 17:16:01
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Interesting observations Dave. I haven't seen either for many years, but from your description it looks like, whatever their merits, spectators get treated to two quite different displays.

Dave Bran21/08/2017 15:53:07
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1898 forum posts
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Yes, Trevor, apart from the red, white and blue smoke, quite different, especially when the off display line flying is included. Both displays were good to watch.

In similar vein the F16, Typhoon, and Grippen on the face of it would you'd think display quite similarly, but the differences were quite marked. Again this is observing from a distance where the degree of washout/slide could be more easily judged. The Typhoon was impressive both for its noise and for the amount of the flight time it spent not actually tracking anywhere near where it was pointing, esp at low ground speeds and when inverted.

Those big canards on the Grippen sure do bite!!

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