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fly boy317/10/2017 23:59:09
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3498 forum posts
18 photos

Hi all, I suffered a small dent in my rear bumper of my 10 year old Toyota Corolla. My insurance company sent me to a Peugoet dealer for repairs. They have still not sourced the new bumper now after 4weeks. Is this normal ? Cheers

Martin Harris18/10/2017 00:36:50
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8735 forum posts
214 photos

Couldn't they just knock it out?

TBH, I don't think I would have involved insurance if that's all the damage there was on a 10 year old car - if it was someone running into you, a few pounds from them to sort it would have saved money and time all round. The accident will need to be declared when you go for insurance in the future and you run the risk that your company may just take the easy option and opt to share responsibility with the third party insurer if the accident circumstances aren't totally clear cut. Unfortunately, insurance company repairers seem to have to abide by various rules regarding originality and tend to replace rather than repair - there's probably a bit more profit in supplying parts...

There are plenty of independent repairers who should do a repair for not very much.

If you ever do go down this route, you should of course inform your insurer "for information only" to comply with normal conditions.

FastFlyer Smyth18/10/2017 01:39:36
309 forum posts
11 photos

Yeah, so the insurance company can up your premium yet again..... Don't even bother to inform the insurance company if the other driver bungs you money to get it fixed. Just get it fixed and be done with it.

Ask me how I know.

Percy Verance18/10/2017 06:33:08
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

A new bumper? Oh dear, they really know how to pile it on don't they?

My Skoda got hit parked in the road outside my house 5 or 6 years back, and the bumper looked to me as though it was beyond repair. There was a hole you could fit your fist through right on the point of impact, plus various horizontal splits radiating from the hole. Like you I seriously thought it'd be a new bumper. No chance. My insurer said it would be a repair job, and that's what was done. The resulting repair looked totally invisible.....

There is now a whole little industry springing up in the repair of small bodywork dents paintlessly, along with plastic bumper repairs.

New bumper? They're lifting your leg mate.

Cuban818/10/2017 07:59:23
2640 forum posts
13 photos

A few years ago I put a large deep scuff into my Mondeo's front nearside bumper (plastic) when I carelessly scraped it on our drive's gate post. The first thing that my usual independent garage said when I took it to them was "is this an insurance job?"

A fair enough question from the point of view of their admin and getting paid etc - but as I wasn't claiming through my insurance, given the loss of no-claims and IIRC the £250 excess on damage that I'd be liable for, I eventually paid them just £160 all in. They repaired and filled the gouges, sprayed and matched in the paint perfectly and I had the car back the next day. Their repair was, and remains, completely invisible. I wondered at the time how much the insurance company would have been charged by one of their authorised repairers for the same outcome, no doubt a tad over £160.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 18/10/2017 08:04:27

Peter Christy18/10/2017 08:58:25
1517 forum posts

Last summer, I treated SWMBO to a new (small!) car. She'd only had it a couple of weeks when someone reversed into her. Luckily I'd fitted a dashcam, so there was clear evidence of where the fault lay.

The local bump specialist quoted £120 to fix the minor damage. The other party denied liability and insisted on it going through the insurance (I don't think he knew about the dashcam). My wife needs her car for work, so the insurers agreed to provide a loan car whilst hers was fixed. They sent two drivers from the nearest major town (where their repair centre was) - one to collect our car, the other to transport the collection driver - about an hour each way. The next day a loan car arrived, again two vehicles, one to pick up the delivery driver. The car was in the workshop for a week. (The damage was so trivial that the local bump specialist had said we could have it back the same day!) Then when our car was fixed, the whole procedure was repeated!

I don't know how much that all cost, but just the cost of the delivery drivers alone must have been several times the cost of the repair at the local bump doctors!

Then the insurance company started saying the other driver was still contesting the claim, despite us already having sent them clear evidence of liability (dashcam footage) twice! I've now sent it FOUR times, both to their "secure" website upload facility, and on a DVD recorded delivery!

As far as I am aware, the dispute is still going on!

Between the sheer waste of resources and total incompetence on behalf of the insurers, it is no wonder that premiums are sky-high!!!

--

Pete

Keith Evans 318/10/2017 09:08:49
371 forum posts
81 photos

Try using your local car dismantlers or the part or search nationally on the web to get the part , and do a deal with the garage carrying out your repair .This has worked for me in the past .

Denis Watkins18/10/2017 09:26:34
3806 forum posts
52 photos

As Keith says

Online, on breakers and parts required

Log the part you need

The parts people then email you with the part availability and the price

I received a reply within one hour for a new oil sump, boxed with makers part number

For a 15 year old Citroen C3 for £30

Martin Harris18/10/2017 11:42:29
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8735 forum posts
214 photos
Posted by FastFlyer Smyth on 18/10/2017 01:39:36:

Yeah, so the insurance company can up your premium yet again..... Don't even bother to inform the insurance company if the other driver bungs you money to get it fixed. Just get it fixed and be done with it.

Ask me how I know.

It's a tricky one. While in all probability, just getting on with it is the easiest and potentially less troublesome/costly route, these things can come back to bite you. Not all insurance companies have scruples about taking your premiums without looking at your proposal in any detail, preferring to rely on you to disclose any accidents or claims but can be quite thorough when a claim is made. I was actually quite pleased when I took out insurance for a motorbike recently - after going through the details with the company, they said "Sorry, you made a fault claim from a different insurer a couple of years ago on your car which you haven't mentioned, so the premium quoted will have to rise to £x." - after expressing surprise, on further examination it was a glass repair and didn't actually count against me but at least they took the initiative to check my claims history.

You would need to be very sure that the third party is not going to mention the incident to their own company - they are very happy to share their databases when future claims are made - especially where some of the budget companies are involved...

Robin Colbourne18/10/2017 20:36:04
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402 forum posts
4 photos

Maybe the insurer and/or garage are hoping they can source a good used bumper in the right colour to save themselves a lot of effort and expense? They could reasonably argue that you were happy with a ten year old bumper before the accident, so should be ok with the same again.

A lot of scrapyards now only dismantle the cars themselves and sell the parts into the trade. It avoids the risk of Joe Public injuring himself, pilfering other bits off the cars and causing damage to other valuable parts getting the bit he wants.

One thing of which you should be aware.  If you get a car body part sent by courier, the couriers can charge a lot more than for a similar sized parcel. I got stung for this recently when I arranged a courier to get a 'collection only' bumper that I bought via eBay.

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 18/10/2017 20:37:43

Trevor Crook19/10/2017 08:14:07
836 forum posts
65 photos

Pete Christy's experience demonstrates why so many basically sound cars are written off - insurance companies spend a fortune on a repair, much of this being on courtesy cars. Depending on the severity of the damage, it's worth getting some quotes on a bumper repair, and passing these on to your insurance company. They may agree to fund a bumper repair rather than a replacement. Worked for my son a few years ago.

Andy4819/10/2017 15:52:32
1358 forum posts
1 photos

When I damaged the boot of my Mitsubishi a few years ago, I phoned the insurance company on a Tuesday night. it needed a new boot lid, a bumper plus a few other bits and pieces. I had a phone call from the repair centre the next morning, and the car was picked up that day. On Friday evening they returned the car. 3 days. This was a new model car that had only been imported for just a year, and there were less than 2000 of them in the UK. Well pleased with both the repair centre and Mitsubishi.

ted hughes19/10/2017 17:16:13
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466 forum posts
Posted by Peter Christy on 18/10/2017 08:58:25:

Last summer, I treated SWMBO to a new (small!) car. She'd only had it a couple of weeks when someone reversed into her. Luckily I'd fitted a dashcam, so there was clear evidence of where the fault lay.

The local bump specialist quoted £120 to fix the minor damage. The other party denied liability and insisted on it going through the insurance (I don't think he knew about the dashcam). My wife needs her car for work, so the insurers agreed to provide a loan car whilst hers was fixed. They sent two drivers from the nearest major town (where their repair centre was) - one to collect our car, the other to transport the collection driver - about an hour each way. The next day a loan car arrived, again two vehicles, one to pick up the delivery driver. The car was in the workshop for a week. (The damage was so trivial that the local bump specialist had said we could have it back the same day!) Then when our car was fixed, the whole procedure was repeated!

I don't know how much that all cost, but just the cost of the delivery drivers alone must have been several times the cost of the repair at the local bump doctors!

Then the insurance company started saying the other driver was still contesting the claim, despite us already having sent them clear evidence of liability (dashcam footage) twice! I've now sent it FOUR times, both to their "secure" website upload facility, and on a DVD recorded delivery!

As far as I am aware, the dispute is still going on!

Between the sheer waste of resources and total incompetence on behalf of the insurers, it is no wonder that premiums are sky-high!!!

--

Pete

Why didn't you wait for the insurance to be sorted before going ahead with repair? I'm sure the other party will argue he was hit from behind.

John Bisset19/10/2017 17:47:07
153 forum posts

To answer the original poster, I'd entirely agree with others here. It is not worth claiming that on your insurance for a ten year old Toyota. Either get a replacement from the nearest scrap merchant, or if it is a plastic bumper and the dent is small, get it filled and painted.

The increase in future premiums plus the excess charge will outweigh the cost of a bumper - and frankly, at ten years old, the car's value is not high anyway. I tend to run my cars to end of economic life unless I change them early (rare). The final cut-off becomes when maintenance costs are rising each year and approach the lost opportunity cost of the capital required to replace it - or 'the Opex v Capex trade-off', in project engineer language.

At ten years old you should have another five or six years of use at least, unless mileage is very high, but it is not really worth spending money on minor cosmetic points, in my view.

Regards,

John

Peter Christy19/10/2017 18:03:10
1517 forum posts
Posted by ted hughes on 19/10/2017 17:16:13:Why didn't you wait for the insurance to be sorted before going ahead with repair? I'm sure the other party will argue he was hit from behind.

The dashcam footage quite clearly shows him reversing into my wife's stationary car, then getting out to examine the damage. At the time, he accepted liability an agreed to pay for the repair. It was only when we sent him the estimate that *he* insisted (not us) that it go through the insurance. Once they got involved, it was out of our hands.

In view of the incontrovertible evidence, he must be kicking himself. The loss of no claims, plus the amount his insurance will go up by will be substantially more than the original estimate.

From our point of view, we just needed the thing fixed quickly. What staggered me was the procedures the insurance company goes through! The hire car didn't come from the insurers, but a "partner" company, and the finance for it came from yet another company! The finance company wouldn't sanction payment until they'd either received an admission of liability or seen evidence of "guilt". So we had to send them the dashcam footage too! They took one look at it and agreed it was no contest.

The annoying thing is the way the whole episode grew like topsy! The insurance assured us that they would deal with everything, and that we could sit back and relax! Instead I spent hours on the phone trying to find out 1) when they were going to pick up the car, 2) when we were getting the hire car, 3) when would we get it back, etc, etc. The car was actually ready to be returned on a Friday, but when we rang up to find out why we hadn't got it back, we were told that everyone had gone home! We couldn't even go and pick it up, because the caretaker didn't have access to the parking lot! So that meant another two days on the hire car bill!

If it had all been dealt with "in house", they could have sent ONE driver to deliver the hire car and pick up ours, and the same procedure to return it. Instead, it took two drivers plus another car on each occasion. I also had to spend hours on the phone chasing up all the various companies involved. Every time I rang the insurers, it was a different "advisor" I spoke too, who was unable to locate the dashcam footage, even though they obviously had it on file, as the original advisor had seen it to sanction the hire car. That's why I ended up sending it in four times!

It was like a Keystone Cops movie! And this is one of the bigger insurance companies, not some cheapo effort!

And THAT is why our premiums are so high! Its just rank stupidity!

--

Pete

 

Edited By Peter Christy on 19/10/2017 18:04:53

Mr.B.19/10/2017 18:14:08
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412 forum posts
26 photos

Peter,

Your last post identifies what is going on. Your insurer have passed the claim onto a claim handling company. The handling company collected your car, are having it repaired and provided the hire car. They are whacking a healthy mark up on the repair and the hire car which they hope to reclaim from the other drivers insurers. The longer they can spin this out the more they make. Oh,and if they can't reclaim it from the other insurer guess where they will turn. Check carefully anything you have signed. If you were fully comp you did have the right to refuse the claim handling company and insist your insurer sort it out. I bet they didn't tell you that. Push hard to get this sorted ASAP. Claim handlign companies are why premiums are so high.

Percy Verance19/10/2017 19:39:53
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

Don't mention claims companies to me......

A few years back I decided to instigate a claim for a refund of PPI I had on a (then) credit card. I was contacted by one particular claims company - whose name I can no longer recall - offering to "take care" of everything. I'd have nothing to do but sign the paperwork. I was assigned a *dedicated* claims adviser, and given his direct contact phone number. It all seemed wonderful, at least until I pressed them about how much they'd charge for "taking care" of it all.

The eventual reply was 37% of the sum I'd hopefully be awarded. With that I immediately returned their paperwork unsigned, with a letter stating clearly that I would not be using their services.

I contaced the Financial Ombudsman Service, whom promptly sent me the necessary paperwork to proceed with my claim. The eventual result was £4000+ in my bank account, with a cost to me of the price of a few stamps......

Edited By Percy Verance on 19/10/2017 19:40:58

Peter Christy20/10/2017 08:48:02
1517 forum posts

Mr.B.: Thanks for the info. I'm not sure a claims handling firm is involved - certainly we haven't been sent any paperwork, nor have we signed anything. I would have read it most carefully if we had!

As far as I can tell, the insurers have "outsourced" all the actual work, and act merely as co-ordinators (and not very well, at that!).

The last we heard from them was some weeks ago when they said the other driver was still disputing the claim. I can only assume from that that they hadn't shown him the dashcam footage! They have assured SWMBO that her NCD is safe, but I shall be keeping a close eye on the renewal premium. If it has risen significantly, we will be taking our business elsewhere.

I think you are right that the insurance company are inflating the costs as much as possible, in order to increase their profit from the deal. Presumably other insurers do the same to them, and so the circus continues, with us paying for it all......!

--

Pete

Keith Lomax20/10/2017 14:49:12
204 forum posts

The claims handling company will also appoint, pay (and claim a mark up on) a solicitor to pursue your "uninsured costs" and compensation for your non-existent injuries. They will assume that you want to claim and even tell you how much you will get despite not having seen any medical reports - even if the reports exist.

About 8 years ago my wife's car was damaged shortly after she and her son (who was driving) got out having parked it at the side of the road. The solicitors insisted that they were each entitled to about £3k. We told them where to stuff their fraudulent claim.

Martin Harris20/10/2017 15:36:55
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8735 forum posts
214 photos

Some may, Keith, but that wasn't my experience after an old boy suddenly decided to alter course on a 2 lane roundabout and drove into the side of my car. After stating that I was uninjured there was no talk of claiming for anything.

The process was:

Insurance company arranged for repairs for which I had to pay the excess.

They then passed my case to their associated claim handling company (DAS) to pursue my uninsured losses, who sent out an investigator for an interview/chat.

He agreed with my account of and assessment of the incident, then went to take his photos of the scene and make his report.

The third party's company engaged a similar organisation who denied liability and threatened a counter claim and County Court action against me.

I was asked by them (through my own company) if I would be willing to attend the court to defend their claim against me.

I confirmed that I would be more than happy to do so.

They dropped the case like a hot potato as I'd called their bluff over their rather obvious attempt to bully me into dropping my claim.

Very soon afterwards, I received a cheque for the full amount of my excess, an admittal of full responsibility for their client's fault and confirmation that my insurance company had recovered all their costs from the third party meaning that my NCB history was unsullied.

This isn't the only time I've heard of insurance companies/claims companies trying to lever claimants into taking full or part liability by threatening quite unjustifiable action against them - I can only advise anyone in a similar position to stand up for themselves - in all likelihood, they won't proceed once they realise that they will be found to be bringing a claim without any foundation.

Edited By Martin Harris on 20/10/2017 15:40:43

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