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Martyn's Dalotel

2018 MB effort (model no 1, there may not be a no.2)

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Nigel R04/12/2017 09:20:25
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I think they had a 'scale appearance' type rule which was obviously open to wide degree of interpretation. Presumably the expected lower table finishers could have got away with a lot, but the guys at the top would not be allowed that much leeway. I read it more that Hanno just accepted the judges decision and came back the year after with a closer-to-scale model.

TOC was quite a forward looking contest, very much the antithesis of the rigid F3A style and in many ways set the ground for the current scale 3d aero comps.

I think the Hanno Dalotel was the model preceeding that, and had a couple of 30cc glow engines driving a gearbox to power it?

It should make a great club model at this scale.

Martyn K04/12/2017 09:52:19
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I think that may be where the 10% rule came from that is used by IMAC. TBH, its not something I like as it can leave a model looking nothing like its full sized version.

Hanno's original 1978 Dalotel had 2 x Webra 60's I think with a reduction drive with about a 1:2 reduction driving a larger prop. However, the engines needed to be modified to run backwards. I believe this was the Bridi version of the Dalotel.

 

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 04/12/2017 09:52:50

Martin McIntosh04/12/2017 17:16:11
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Martyn, you will just love this design to bits when you come to fly it. Having built at least nine of various sizes over the years you could be excused for thinking that it is my favourite ever. Just wished that I had one when I flew comps. because it is totally superior to anything I had at the time; rarely requiring any mixing whatsoever.

I got the original plan from Joe Suddes whom I was staying with at the 1979 world championships in RSA. It was designed around a geared Rossi 60 but I used a ST 60 XRE. I now have two of these motors and still use them.

You will have seen the current ones at the retro events. The 48" one has an OS 25 FX, the 60 size had a YS 63, now replaced with a Laser 80 which does not stick out a silencer, and the 2M version is powered by a YS FZ110. The latter is by far the best and now entering its 19th season.

To boot, it is a very simple model to build. The original plan states 0 deg. tail and +0.9 deg. wing. I tend to use a RAF 30 section.

Martyn K05/12/2017 13:13:29
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Hi Martin

It was actually seeing yours and Tony Saxby's Dalotels in action that made me decide to build one.

I have also just managed to acquire a copy of the original TOC Bridi/Prettner design as well. Designed for a Webra Speed 91...

Martin McIntosh05/12/2017 16:20:56
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Hi Martyn, I do not think that the Enya will be up to the job if the model is to be around 67-69" span, even with that huge wing area. My YS 63 struggled a bit and is far more powerful. Go for a Laser 80 if you can.

Martyn K05/12/2017 16:30:39
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Thanks Martin

Peter's design is 59" span so I think would be a good match for the Enya.

The Bridi/Prettner design is much bigger at about 2m span - which suggests a 30cc Petrol may be the best option. I would expect a 90 to struggle with that

Martyn

Martyn K02/01/2018 10:50:53
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5078 forum posts
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Made a start yesterday. Almost as much as a tradition starting a MB on the 1/1 as is Turkey on the 25/12

Rather than buy a parts kits, I am building this totally from scratch. I have scanned all the formers and ribs off the plan and reduced them down to 2 colours (Black/White) then cleaned and laser printed (this method does not work with ink jet printers). If anyone wants a set of images to replicate what I have done, please PM me me with your email address. I am not offering a print service though - sorry.

The idea is that each copy is placed face down on the wood then rubbed with Cellulose thinners so that the ink gets transferred to the wood underneath

formers1.jpg

A bit like this

After a couple of hours with bandsaw, fretsaw and a sharp scalpel blade, I got this far.

formers.jpg

The only really tricky ones were the canopy formers which were cut then sanded down as a pair. I still need to drill the holes for the linkage cables but that should be straightforward.

 

Its going to be slow, I need to get the Fokker finished within the next 6 weeks so I am afraid that will take priority

 

More to come

 

 

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 02/01/2018 10:51:33

kc02/01/2018 19:19:50
6425 forum posts
173 photos

I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that Hanno Prettner cheated, but it was only called a semi scale version in RC Scale Aircraft summer 1986. the picture there shows Mr Dalotel with the Prettners and their plane. The paintwork may have been non scale as it has lettering which differs from Boddington's scale version in that magazine. The TOC regs which I saw somewhere ( RCM probably) gave the variation in scale allowed ( might have been 5 or 10 percent! ) as this was FLYING contest only. Hanno also built a special engine for this model which was 2 Super Tigres geared together with gearing machined himself with a lathe made by his sponsors (EMCO Unimat) so it was a remarkable model.

The magazine also says Chris Foss built a Class 1 scale Dalotel. A clubmate saw the Foss version and said it was a magnificent model.

My take on the TOC was that the Americans disliked the big TOC prize money going year after year to Prettner because of his superb flying that they tried anything to stop him!

kc02/01/2018 19:31:23
6425 forum posts
173 photos

To avoid the fumes and fire risk of using thinners indoors why not just double sided Sellotape photocopies to the balsa and cut along the line right through the photocopy and balsa? Just score the wood in the case of plywood.

Martin McIntosh02/01/2018 20:13:55
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I am very surprised to hear that Prettner got disqualified since that was not reported at the time as far as I am aware. In fact Geoff Franklin told me that he was very impressed by the strange sound the reversible prop made on a downward vertical roll, so it must have flown there. It did in fact have a pair of ST 60`s, probably with Webra carbs fitted since those were his preference.

McG 696902/01/2018 20:27:33
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3171 forum posts
1198 photos

Hi KC,

I can't remember Hanno being 'cheating' when he flew the Dalotel, but when he entered a 'pseudo' Steen Bolt in 1984, he was rejected from participating as his interpretation of the Bolt was 'way out'... which he admitted publicly later on.

But then of course the Yanks didn't appreciate the vanished price money year after year... and the fact that he got some huge sponsoring money from one of the leading hotels in Las Vegas... surprise

If I remember well, your Super Tigres could also be some coupled Webra 60's... but I guess I'm way too young and unexperienced to be totally sure. blush

Cheers

Chris

Wasaforumite02/01/2018 22:11:04
126 forum posts
35 photos

When I cut out parts using a fret saw or scapel, I just photo copy (or printout if the plan is a pdf) the plan using an Epson Workforce scanner/printer. The copies are cut out with scissors leaving a margin of a couple of mm and then stuck to the wood using a Prit stick. After cutting out the paper is easily removed. I did buy some A4 labels to peel off and stick after copying or printing which might be even easier but I've never got round to trying it yet.

Former Member02/01/2018 23:23:05
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[This posting has been removed]

bert baker03/01/2018 00:15:55
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1584 forum posts
326 photos

img_1914.jpg

bert baker03/01/2018 00:16:34
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1584 forum posts
326 photos

img_1915.jpg

bert baker03/01/2018 00:17:59
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The above came from my old ST Michael's model aircraft book

Martyn K03/01/2018 08:16:36
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That is without doubt a Dalotel.. The history is really quite fascinating..

Thanks

Martyn

Martyn K03/01/2018 08:19:15
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Posted by kc on 02/01/2018 19:31:23:

To avoid the fumes and fire risk of using thinners indoors why not just double sided Sellotape photocopies to the balsa and cut along the line right through the photocopy and balsa? Just score the wood in the case of plywood.

I have tried paper templates etc before and I never really got on well with it. For simple straight patterns I'll use the pin prick method, but there is so little thinners used, fumes are not really a problem.

Martyn K03/01/2018 08:21:30
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5078 forum posts
3678 photos
Posted by Wasaforumite on 02/01/2018 22:11:04:

When I cut out parts using a fret saw or scapel, I just photo copy (or printout if the plan is a pdf) the plan using an Epson Workforce scanner/printer. The copies are cut out with scissors leaving a margin of a couple of mm and then stuck to the wood using a Prit stick. After cutting out the paper is easily removed. I did buy some A4 labels to peel off and stick after copying or printing which might be even easier but I've never got round to trying it yet.

I have recently acquired a plotter and was thinking along the same lines - try and plot straight onto wood. However, I am more than happy with the method I currently use and I certainly dont want to risk damaging the plotter/cutter. However, It is something to think about for the future

Martin McIntosh03/01/2018 09:31:36
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3329 forum posts
1178 photos

My way of transferring to wood now is to photocopy the parts, scaling up if needed, cut them out then draw round with a fine fibre tip. Scroll saw on the ink line and you get an accurate set.

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