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Laser Engines - Technical questions

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Don Fry19/11/2019 16:23:55
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4124 forum posts
48 photos

Are we just checking Jon can do maths, or is this displacement activity?

Guilt;

for owning unemployed engines (BTW, a looked newish, 7 year old, 160v went for £475 on EBay this week)

lawn darting (love that phrase)

running the engine after it has broken up.

Jon - Laser Engines19/11/2019 16:49:14
4894 forum posts
186 photos

I think we are counting the number of ways to skin a cat

Anyway 475 for a 160? If i had one it would be cheaper than that new. alas...

Martin Harris19/11/2019 17:22:55
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8951 forum posts
221 photos

Supply and demand? Should we organise a deputation of modellers to picket your boss's office? wink

Don Fry19/11/2019 19:03:56
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4124 forum posts
48 photos

Sharpened APC at the ready. I can do a very good edge grinder. That'll disturb lunch time curries. For the technically minded, attaching a duff motor to a stick, AKA shillaghly, will do.

Jon - Laser Engines19/11/2019 19:29:51
4894 forum posts
186 photos

i had a look at prices of 2nd hand engines on ebay and what people are prepared to pay for what i would consider an old nail. Quite staggering. Anyway i intend to show him tomorrow.

I am also going to see if i can work out a plan to get the twins back in production. Its clear my original plan is never going to work as its been several years now and nothing has changed. I also got bored and designed a new engine (or 3 as i can use the concept on others) but its unlikely i will get to assemble a prototype while the twins are off the table. Even so its still very unlikely which is a shame as saito are dishing out new engines every 5 minutes, although some i think could have done with spending more time in RnD

One final thing is we are still looking at running the engines on lower oil content fuel. We know 10% is fine and i am happy with 5% but in the interest of being cautious i think we are going to shoot for 7.5%. When i get time im going to talk to model technics about mixing some up but we will need people to test it out and see how they find it.

If anyone is interested in testing it let me know. Please note that by test it i mean just use it and report. There is no need to do anything more than fuel it up and fly it as you normally would. If nothing breaks (it wont im sure) just keep flying. Unless something is wrong i dont need anything more than a 6 monthly update on proceedings

Don Fry19/11/2019 21:14:53
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4124 forum posts
48 photos

Jon, I have said this before. But;

the sale on EBay last week is another clue that there is a demand in the market. You lofted a load of motors onto the market last week. No motors for sale today.

Another company might, if presented with the opportunity, might put their price up. Now I detect there is a socialist core on your soul. But you can't beat the market. Why not price them higher. Please the boss. And I will point out, when did the price last go up. And if they don't sell, you can then come down,

And, note, I can still lecture the bloke who makes them.

I have an ancient 75, an early one, no idea how many hours it's done, bought well run, and it's done many hours since. I've lawn darted it twice to my memory. Washed of, it goes. You sell a premium (fairly) indestructible product, why price as an ASP.

Chris Walby19/11/2019 21:59:54
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1025 forum posts
238 photos

Don, I think you are missing the point

Jon is doing the best he can with what he has available and if you want to vent your spleen I suggest you write to the company owners and make you points to them.

Hopefully they will push more resource Jon's way so he has more time to build engines, but in the end that's down to Jon's boss to decide.

If we all make a really big nuisance of ourselves then the directors might just cut their losses and stop making engines.

PS I am up for a bit of engine testing with my Acrowot 70 if it helps out.

Jeremy Scott-hake19/11/2019 22:47:22
16 forum posts
3 photos

I would like to thank Jon for my new 155 Laser and for the refresh or my 150 on my factory visit last week.

I would be happy to test some fuel , I have just bought 2 gallons of Model Technics Laser mix so better get flying and use it up a bit Sharpish!

Jon - Laser Engines20/11/2019 08:46:01
4894 forum posts
186 photos

Plenty of people have mentioned price rises and i really dont see the need. I wont cheat people by setting some totally made up price on a product. There was an engine on ebay recently, it might even still be there, which the owner bought for about £350 and is now selling for 750. This is just straight dishonesty and greed in my view and a deliberate attempt to con someone. That is not something i want to be a part of.

I also do not see what a price rise would achieve. The additional cost would just put people off buying, and while margins would be better turnover would probably be the same with reduced orders and the only advantage would be less people calling giving me more time to do things. But, that isnt really the right way to look at it is it? I have customers who want to buy my products but im going to price them out of it to stop them calling to buy stuff? Seems very strange to me. And with no improvement in overall profitability the options for RnD remain at zero so i dont really gain anything. My stock shelf might be full, but if nothing sells then its all for nothing.

Also, to play devils advocate, if cos is no factor but availability is then buy an OS. They are in stock at many shops but you pay more for an OS 70 than our 180. Somehow, i doubt that is going to be a very popular choice so why would i shoot myself in the foot by pricing the engines that high? If you consider Laser, OS and Saito to be equal in terms of quality etc (this is an assumption clearly ) then why would you buy one which is twice the price of another?

All of the problems would be solved if we just made more engines. We used to make more, but for some reason we now make less than 1/3 of what we used to. Perhaps its because the jobs once done by 3 people are now being done by 1

Paul james 820/11/2019 09:28:26
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158 forum posts
47 photos

We should be talking about a new business venture Jon, you sound slightly disillusioned with the current situation (been there, have that shirt) so why not give it some thought.

Ron Gray20/11/2019 09:31:11
1550 forum posts
367 photos

Personally I don’t think that increasing the price of Laser engines will really improve matters for the same reasons that Jon has stated. But for me the price is largely irrelevant, I want a Laser because I want top quality and top after sales service and having had both OS and Saito imho neither come up to Laser. My ‘collection’ now numbers 12, and yes, all but 2 80s have airframe ‘homes’ and I will buy more as the need arises and if it means waiting a year (I have done that) then so be it, ideally I would like them to be in stock but in, the meantime, I’ve other ‘planes I can fly.

Phil B20/11/2019 09:54:14
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168 forum posts
161 photos

In Britain we have a history of producing excellent products with skilled engineers and high quality standards. So often our best effortd get undermined by managerial or supply issues. I hope that won't happen to Laser Engines. In my view the best British model engine range produced, certainly since John Oliver stopped producing wonderful little diesels. "Come on Jon",! We are all behind you.

David Davis20/11/2019 09:56:43
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3465 forum posts
622 photos

So what are we talking about here? Setting up a new business? If so how much would it cost to do that? Crowd funding?

Phil B20/11/2019 09:57:41
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168 forum posts
161 photos

PS.. Well said Ron. Lovely to have some good sense in one of our debates. Are you standing on Oct 12th?😂

Jon - Laser Engines20/11/2019 10:12:40
4894 forum posts
186 photos
Posted by Paul james 8 on 20/11/2019 09:28:26:

We should be talking about a new business venture Jon, you sound slightly disillusioned with the current situation (been there, have that shirt) so why not give it some thought.

Its very frustrating and not just on the engine side.

As i think i have mentioned before finding decent retracts at sensible prices is very hard now. Scale details like spitfire wheels are available from robart but the price... I was looking at retracts for my 5th scale spitfire. It was going to cost near £700 just for retracts and some nice looking wheels. That is ridiculous as a scale wheel is a doddle to make from an engineering point of view as the tolerances can be a mile wide compared to an engine as most of the work is only cosmetic. As long as its a nice fit on the axle its all good.

The above has been my goal from the start but after nearly 9 years here i am further back than when i started

Ron Gray20/11/2019 10:56:12
1550 forum posts
367 photos

@DavidD - if you look at a business plan for a new company producing (mainly) I/C engines for the model ‘plane market it doesn’t make for good reading! There would have to be major diversification into other, related markets and therein lays the problem.

Manish Chandrayan20/11/2019 10:59:31
606 forum posts
70 photos

I can own up to influencing at least one engine sale to a fellow flyer. A 100 was recently bought by a friend on my urging and bidding and allowing him to fondle my new in box 155 wink.

David Davis20/11/2019 11:02:37
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3465 forum posts
622 photos
Posted by Ron Gray on 20/11/2019 10:56:12:

@DavidD - if you look at a business plan for a new company producing (mainly) I/C engines for the model ‘plane market it doesn’t make for good reading! There would have to be major diversification into other, related markets and therein lays the problem.

I know. Those of us with the ability to appreciate a fine piece of engineering and with the money to pay for the finished product, are all dying off! cheeky

Ron Gray20/11/2019 12:55:13
1550 forum posts
367 photos

Not forgetting the impact that leccy motors is having, it’s a dwindling market. Get’m, use’m, love’m whilst you can.

Martin McIntosh20/11/2019 15:28:30
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2970 forum posts
1090 photos

Jon, I have a pair of Eurokits air units, 90 degrees and ex Lanc. if you are interested. Same as the ones in my 1:5 Hurricane.

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